Famous People Converted Into Islam

stoney if your a muslim prove that aisha had reached puberty

as you know Im using the correct sources, so anyone reading you saying Im not can find out for themselves .

sahih haddith are considered authentic, the quran is considered authentic the translations were done by muslims

 

you have too much hate in you to even begin to understand the concept and message of islam ..if/when you have managed to get rid of it ..i'll be more than glad to engage with you

peace and guidance!

 

Ya dude, you are simply wasting your time if you are trying to convince muslims to convert and forsake their way of life, which for the most part, has been a positive factor in the makeup of their lives. If you cant even convince me that Islam is bad (I am not a Muslim by any stretch of the imagination, but I am on good terms with the Islamic community, which I have judged to be by and large a good community) what the hell do you think you are going to accomplish? Lets talk about Athiesm. It is a peice of crap, not because it rejects the idea of any specific God or Gods, but because it just throws spirituality in the trash. Tell me something from your Athiestic point of view...why does existance have to exist? do you not believe that there is some inexplicable force behind the universe and its workings? And of you, if you have nothing that resembles a soul, and your existance isnt anything special at all, why not kill yourself right now? in the end it would be the exact same as if you lived the happiest concievable life and died peacefully at an old age. No, there is much more to existance than that, and I cant even begin to put it into words, for words can never describe the ultimate and infinite, all I am able to say is that there is more than the simple materialistic worldview without any real point that Atheism has to offer. I am not a Muslim, but I do support whole-heartedly the Islamic belief, as it tells people that there is some goodness to their existance, and they should work together as brothers and strive for a better world. If you can not respect that than you are completely intolerant and you might as well be some pro-war counter-protester involved with the heritage foundation.

 

WHO CARES... Stop gloting...
Well theres my two cents...

 

I have to agree with Johny2mads historical analysis on the 'Islamic Utopia' being highly over-rated.
Dont get me wrong - we know that as Islam went forward (outward) and conquered many nations, it also collected treasuries of knowledge and took over lands which were developing fine cultures.
All of this came under Islams control and for example, we know that Muhammed had access to some of the greatest Greek Scholars (we see that in the Koran itself) and many other libraries he conquered too.

But.. the 'story' you hear from some Muslim apologists of this advanced Utopia which was like some overwhelming advancement in human achievement is simply not true.
Often the way to make it sound more sophisticated is to overexggerate how 'primitive' people outside of Utopia were.
Outrageous stories of Europe being nothing short of a pigs trough with dumb apes wallowing in mud, unable to do basic mathematics or unsanitary.
(that is said of other cultures too like the Hindus and the Chinese)

Im entirely happy to give credit but I want to give credit where its due - not where a story has been made up.

 

Europe at the time was in dark age. The once advanced and relatively enlightened (for the record, I do not believe any civilization to date has been truly enlightened) Greeks and Romans were gone, but for the remnant of the Byzantines. The once (very relatively) peaceful tribes of northern europe were corrupted with religious and imperial expansionism resulting in the quite frankly evil Frankish Empire that murdered tens of thousands of Germannic and Celtic peoples who were unwilling to abandon their indegenous beliefs (which are only now begining to resurface, and I for one say godspeed to them). Europe was by and large a very savage place at the time of Muhammed. Before Muhammed, Arabia equally, if not more savage. Female babies were burried in sand so that the fathers wouldnt have to care for them, as females were seen as a liability. The different tribes vied for power in the cities, much like warlords in a war-torn anarchic states(not idealogical anarchy, but rather anarchy as the result of war and oppression). Muhammed put an end to this. He united the tribes of Arabia and the tribal wars stopped. He also ordered his men not to kill anybody who did not fight, as it says in the Qu'ran (with a rough translation for us non-arabic speakers) "...And fight [those who fight against you] untill there is no more oppression and justice prevails. But if they cease, let there be no more hostility, except to those who still practise oppression" Surah 2:194. After Muhammed's death, the Muslim's expanded outside Arabia, bringing an end to the oppressive rule of the Byzantines and Sassanids in many areas. They expanded their religion, but not by force. For example, Egypt maintained a Christian majority until 700 years after the Islamic conquest of it. Christians were far more tolerated under Islamic Moorish rule than Muslims and Jews were treated under Christian Castilian rule. There have been bad Islamic rules, yes, but they are far fewer in number to the bad dynasties of the far east and the west. Europe at the time wa not filled with dumb apes wallowing in the mud, as you claim I believe, but they were in a very unadvanced state during the rise of Islam.Right now, Islam is going through a dark age with western imperialism and oppressive oil kingdoms, but this is not because of Islam. The taliban and the mullah's do not represent Islam at all, they misuse it, and Al Qaeda is no more of a spokesperson of true Islam than the Ku Klux Klan is a representitive of true Protestantism. Do not confuse the fundamentalists for the good aspects of the religion which have brought many great things to this world.

 

ewok I dont think I will convince you that islam is bad because your so narrow minded.

whether your a muslim or not doesnt really matter because as Ive told you before you suffer from irrational islamophilia .

there is no proof that children were buried alive and as Ive pointed out islam did not improve the lot of women .

mohammed didnt end tribal war he increased it then he ethnically cleaned pagans and jews out of saudi .
islam was mostly spread by the sword especially in the early stages .

I could go on but Im tired as its nearly 4 in the morning, so far neither of you or our lady poster have shown that aisha had reached puberty before mohammed had sex with her or disproved my evidence that she hadnt .

just think of the sort of man that you are defending I hope you feel proud of yourself

 

No, I would be narrow minded if I was to conclude that a billion people are evil people with evil beliefs. You can not flatly say that any belief (which does not involve worship of money or manditory kool-aide drinking) is "bad", that is being overly simplistic and narrow minded.

It is not irrational at all, nor is it a philia. there are plenty of Muslims I hate, and I do not agree with many Islamic teachings. However I have a respect for Islam as I have a respect for all beliefs around the world, and it saddens me, as well as most Muslims that some fanatics have given their faith a bad name, but the same can be said of any religion.

The Koran says in Surah 81:8-9 : "And when the female infant is buried alive as the pagan Arabs used to do, it shall be questioned, what was her sin?" which is not only documentation of the practice of infanticide, but the prohibition of it, prooving what I said.

Saudi??? there was no Saudi at the time, and frankly I and many other people find it offensive that a nation and all its citizens are named after the ruling family. Your English, how would you like it if I called you a Windsor? Aside from that, pretty well every religion has been spread by the sword, including your atheism if we look at the USSR, China, Albania, and dozens of other nations, and the Jews have been kicked out of pretty well everywhere at one point in time or another, so you do not convey an effective arguement about the exceptional evils of Islam at all.

According to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's biography of the porphet, Aisha was amoung the first people to accept Islam, thereby meaning that she could not have been less than 14 at the time of her marriage to Muhammed in 1 AH

I am defending the beliefs of a billion people, and I do feel proud for that. You are insulting many good people and slapping everything they believe in in the face. I hope you feel proud.

 

ewokutopia, you'd be right to feel proud for doin what you doin. it is a pride indeed to have you amongst us and showin the true face of humanity!

 

ewok you seem to be going back on yourself in the same thread first you say islam expanded but not by force, then you say "pretty well every religion has been spread by the sword," when I point out that early islam spread mainly by force .

Ibn Ishaq's biography is in no way considered as authentic as sahih haddith and we get in several different books of sahih haddith in several places that mohammed started having sex with aisha when she was 9 and that she had her dolls with her which proves that she hadnt reached puberty .

you would have to disprove the books of muslim and Bukhari which are two of the most important books of haddith

if you wish to say that Ibn Ishaq's biography is a superior source that would be fine with me because there are lots of other nasty things in it .

the whole satanic verses episode is in Ibn Ishaq's biography of mohammed , so you can have it that way that mohammad didnt marry a six year old but he was tempted by satan and changed the koran for him .

that would be a wonderful thing to admit :0)

and the important point is that the vast majority of the worlds muslims and especially islamic teachers believe that mohammed did have sex with a nine year old , and at the time only girls that hadnt reached puberty were allowed to play with dolls and she had her dolls with her while married and having sex with mohammed.

 

jonny2mad, just cause I feel sorry for all the time you are wasting, I hope you devote your life for something better.

"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life." ByMahatma Gandhi in (young india)
May be Gandhi was narrow minded !!!!?

for political and/or startigic reasons impires expand to protect them selves and a good example of this is the world war 1 and 2. I bet you know the muslim world was a fighting ground. No one ever had been forced to accept Islam not at the time of the prophet when he returned to Makkah victoriously and not ever this in the history of Islam...for example Eygept wasn't of a mojority of Muslims untill 700 years after Muslims ruled it and if u searsh the books you have (or you don't!) you'll find that the ruler of Egypt was hit by a youg Qupt Christian boy to get his right back in the presence of the second Khalif of Muslims Omar bin Alkhattab and that was because the son of the ruler of eygept raced the Qupt boy and the Qupt boy won and he was hit for it by the son of the ruler. Omar called the ruler and his son and the qupt boy along with his family to Almadinah where the Qupt boy hit the son of the ruler and the ruler him self by orders of Omar and he said (Omar): when did you make people slaves when they were born free. A little note here is Omar was a great companian and scholar of Islam.
If you are so sure that Islam spread by force I challenge you to get me the name, date or any other information about the battle that Islam was spread to Indonesia by!.. and a hint for you here: Indonesians form the highest population of Muslims in the wourld.
Also, you can explain to me why Hindus in India weren't forced to be muslims although they have been ruled by muslims for more than a thousand years. And a little hint here as well: The popluation of Hindus is higher than the population of Pakistan along with the muslims of india..so good luck in expanding the narrow mindes.

Firstly, Prophet’s proposal to `Aisha came through a suggestion made by Khawalh bint Hakim as a sign of strengthening the relation with his Companion Abu Bakr and confirming his love for him.

Secondly, the fact that `Aisha, before the Prophet proposed to her, was being pursued by Jubair ibn Mut`am, indicates that she was mature enough for marriage, according to the prevailing tradition at that time, if not, the Quraish people, who would never waste any chance to insult the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would have found this marriage as a golden opportunity to pour on him rain of insults. Rather they found nothing wrong in this engagement, and they received the news of the Prophet’s proposal for `Aisha as something usual, and even, expected. And believe me you won’t be any better Anti-Islamic whatever you try.

`Aisha was not the first case, for many girls married at her same age to men who were at their fathers’ age. Hala, the cousin of Amina bint Wahb was married to Abdul-Muttalib on the same day his son `Abdullah married Aminah bint Wahb who was at Hala’s same age. Also, the Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab married the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah honor his face, while he was at her grandpa’s age. And she reported to be the happiest when married her.

After the passage of many centuries, we find now some people like jonny2mad who try to strike a comparison between the conditions of our present time and what was existing 1400 years ago. They are trying to apply the criterions of the Western society to that society that existed in the Arabian Peninsula very long ago.

It should be noted that in the hot regions, it’s normal for a girl to attain maturity at a very early age. Thus the case is totally different from that which does exist in the cold regions where a girl does not attain puberty before 21 [Physicians maintain that the age of puberty in the hot regions normally ranges from 9 to 16]. At all rates, it should be stressed that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, on marrying `Aisha, never aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire; rather, his aim was to strengthen his relation with the most beloved Companion of his.

Had it been true that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire, he would have done this while still in his youth when he was still free from the responsibilities of delivering Allah’s call. At his early age, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, accepted to marry Khadija, may Allah be pleased with her, who was 15 years older than him. He also never married a new wife until after her death. Even after her passing away, his new wife Sawdah bint Zam`ah was an old-aged widow who possessed no particular appealing qualities. This adds to our certainty that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, had many great lofty aims behind his marriages. Also, when Khawlah bint Hakim suggested to him to marry`Aisha, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, thought thoroughly whether to accept or to refuse. He took into consideration his relation with Abu Bakr.

When `Aisha reached the Prophet’s house, Sawdah gave her the first place and took care of her till her death.. Afterwards, `Aisha remained a faithful wife to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him; her 10 years of marriage were of the life of a fully dedicated disciple, trainee and scholarly student in the noble Prophetic school. She was the source of knowledge for almost every Companion. She was of the main sources for revealing knowledge and information of the private life of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. She was a big celebrity in politics and the best example of generosity.

The Prophet’s love for `Aisha was a sign of his love for her father. On being asked about the dearest person to his heart, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned `Aisha. Then, on being asked about the dearest man to him and he, peace and blessings be upon him, mentioned her father, Abu Bakr.


This is copied from a fatwa for Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research On www.Islamonline.net except what is in Arial which are my own comments

you also might be intrested to know what non-Mulims who are not narrow-minded say:

"But do you mean to tell me that the man who in the full flush of youthful vigour, a young man of four and twenty (24), married a woman much his senior, and remained faithful to her for six and twenty years (26), at fifty years of age when the passions are dying married for lust and sexual passion? Not thus are men's lives to be judged. And you look at the women whom he married, you will find that by every one of them an alliance was made for his people, or something was gained for his followers, or the woman was in sore need of protection."
Dr Annie Besant (Dr. Annie Besant in 'The Life and Teachings of Mohammad,' Madras, 1932)

 

Seriously, you need to stop with this senseless bartering of the age of puberty and this nonsense about heat in the desert making her develop.
This is nonsense.
The reason that anyone says puberty 'between 9 -15' is giving the most extreme outer limits which can include medical abnormality.
For ANY girl to begin showing THE FIRST SIGNS of puberty at the age of Nine is so rare it leads to a Doctors exam to find any tumours, disease or possible chemical imbalance.
How stupid should we pretend to be here?
Find me Ten Thousand girls from the hottest regions on the planet and if you can show me ONE that has developed sexually I will be beyond shocked and surprised.

Please, Muslim apologists let me tell you something for your own benefit.
Despite what you have heard, the rest of us are not NEARLY AS STUPID as you have been taught to believe.
If only you can realise how easily we can 'see through' these 'sophisticated sounding' and 'logical presentations' of absolute nonsense.

You are better to just say upfront that Muhammed had sexual relations with a Nine Year old girl.
Thats who he had intercourse with.
Just say up front that Muhammed decided it was acceptable because of the very fact he could and did do it.

Its better to just say this up front than think the rest of the world is so silly and inferior that we will stand around like confused apes and pigs and beileve some elaborate and 'wisely presented' stories about hot desert Sun making nine year olds into sexually developed women ready for intercourse with grown men.

Same goes for Muhammeds violent conquests.
Its ok.
Just make it plain that Muhammed slaughtered thousands through war and conquer.
Stop thinking we are all so stupid that if you just point to regions turned to Islam 'without war' then Im going to be your little foolish western dummy and say to myself "Hey.. thats right, Indonesia was evangelised peacefully.. so everything else must have been too duhhhhhh"

No,
Seriously, you only demonstrate how vulnerable and weak you are going to be when more and more Indonesians convert to Christianity after investigating these things for themselves.
You have a serious problem there because Indonesians know the Koran and Haddiths VERY WELL and you cant just play dumb and ask 'What wars?' when they consider the HORRIFIC VIOLENCE of Muhammed.
Absolutely HORRIFIC.
Taking boys as 'Loot' from the Caravans, beheading the men, raping the women and any town not worshipping Allah is destroyed, the survivors made Slaves.

Horrific stuff folks.
Thanks to the many Muslim apologists posting here and on the internet forums I have learned what a horrifying, violent and downright evil human being this Muhammed really was.
(If Im to believe the Koran and holy accounts of him)
Hopefully they are inaccurate!

 

too bad for you. Nonsense and abnormility bla bla where did you get this from..clearly you have no scientific knoledge nor you searched before objecting. I seriously don't know How stupid should we pretend to be here?

May be you need a recent scientific article that says to you: Erasmus there are more than 10,000 girls that reach the the age of pubirty between 8 and 12 In general and not only in hot regions:

Puberty marks the second stage of physical sexual differentiation—the time when both primary and secondary sexual characteristics as well as adult reproductive capacity develop, and when sexual interest surges. Puberty typically begins in girls from 8 to 12 years of age, whereas boys start about two years later. The hypothalamus initiates pubertal changes by directing pituitary growth hormones and gonadotropins (hormones that control the ovaries and testes).

Stephanie Ann Sanders, B.A., M.S., Ph.D.

"Human Sexuality," Microsoft® Encarta® Online Encyclopedia 2005
http://encarta.msn.com © 1997-2005 Microsoft Corporation



You may be a good fan of evolution….ok evolutionists say:


This is the message of Professors Mark Hanson and Peter Gluckman, whose review of the evolution of puberty is published online this week in Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism.

Hanson and Gluckman, who respectively head the Centre for the Developmental Origins of Health and Disease (DOHaD) at the University of Southampton, and the Liggins Institute at the University of Auckland, New Zealand, researched the age of puberty stretching back beyond the Stone Age.

They found that Paleolithic girls arrived at menarche - the first occurrence of menstruation - between seven and 13 years. This is a similar age to modern girls, which suggests that this is the evolutionarily determined age of puberty in girls.

University Of Southampton Ref: 05/206
New research shows how evolution explains age of puberty. 30 November 2005. http://www.soton.ac.uk

There are many other studies. Go to physiology search engines and educate your self and then come talk about Muslim apologists. And I hope this is logical enough for you. Get me one recognized paper that support your extreme denial of this physiological fact!!

He had sex with his wife, and I really think what I have said in my previous post was logical enough. I gave you many examples of similar marriages and If it was not acceptable Quraish would have done better job to insult the prophet. And again whatever you do you won’t be smarter than them in being Islamophobic.

I have to repeat my self it might make sence to you from the 2nd time. I won’t think you are foolish if you read the whole thing. May be you want to present evidences that Muhammad-peace be upon him- slaughtered thousands through war and conquer. I’ll be happy to make it clearer for you.

I agree Indonesians know the Quran and Hadith just like other Muslims and sometimes even better. And also, It will take you almost your life to convince a Muslim Indonesian of your nice stories. In fact they might do better job in convincing you of your faults than I would.

peace

 

LOOK AGAIN!

How stupid do you think I am tony - that I dont notice you take examples of 'Between 9 and 12'
or
'First Menses between 7 and 13' (and that was is a Peleoithic theory but still)

Stop it.
She is Nine.
There is a HUGE difference between 9 and 12 and Aisha is not 'Between 9-12 years old'
She is 9.

She is not 11, 12, 13.

This is why I say its only making you people look foolish when you repeatedly try and use these little tricks and games and think others are so blind they cannot possibly see what is happening.

Aisha is nine and not 'between 9 and 13'.
Someone even tried this before saying 'between 9 and 15'.
No.
You are not applying 13 year olds development because it is a nine year old.

So lets talk the research.
Its true that researchers are becoming increasingly alarmed that girls as young as Nine are experiencing the START or BEGINNING SIGNS of Puberty.
In such cases, they often look for DEFECTS or something that is causing EARLY ONSET of Puberty.

See, you are talking about menstruation as if that is 'the goal' needed to absolve Muhammed but that is nonsense.
The first Menses does NOT mean the child is now sexually developed enough to begin having intercourse.
You have this terrible idea that 9 year old Aisha would have breasts and hips and pubic hair and then now begins full mentstrual cycles (or be even halfway to these) because somewhere you read about first signs of Menses happening as young as 9.

In fact, the 9 year old is still an undeveloped girl, no breasts, no childbearing hips, no pubic hair even, not on a menstrual cycle, and not even having 'full menstruations' either.

By the way, this is observed to be a MODERN dilemma and early puberty (or first signs) in girls is being seriously researched by concerned physicians.
Its considered an 'Abberation' or something unusual.

But hey.. just keep trying to barter and negotiate and hope that non-muslims will be so dumb they will be willing to accept that a 50 year old man doing a 9 year old (his favourite one of the Harem) is just fine.
Honestly, I never even heard of such a tradition in any culture in any part of history anywhere on the planet!

 

She is nine you say? well, that is a disputed "fact" and her age varries between 9 and 14 depending on the source. We do not even know when Muhammed himself was born for a solid fact, and we relie on the traditional date of his birth, which is about as reliable as saying jesus was born december 25th 0 AD. so do not say that she is nine like it is beyond any shadow of a doubt. In that culture it was the norm for what we would now call girls to marry old men. Erasmus, from your previous posts I gather that you are a Christian. Do you seriously believe that Mary was over 18, conforming to modern age of conscent laws? most people agree that she was between 12 and 16. this wasnt even young to marry back in that culture, so to compare it with modern culture is folly. One thing that you must realize is that life in pre-islamic arabia was far harsher than anything in the west, and we in the west lead very pampered lives, allowing childhood to last incredibly long. 9 year old kids in the 3rd world and urban america are far far more matured than 9 year olds in the American middle and upper classes. Aisha knew what she was doing, and not one document of her dissatisfaction with her husband has been made. Indeed, she was the most loving of all of his wives. She chose to live the way she did. If she didnt want to marry him, he would not have forced her. It was a common practise in Arabia at the time, nothing was considered immoral at all about it. They would have most likely thought it immoral how we in the 21st century have turned marriage into something of a financial agreement. There is endless rhetoric about this topic, and it has raged for more than a thousand years. Damn near every Muslim is aware of this relationship, but that controversy has not hindered Islam's status as the worlds fastest growing faith, and I think that says something. Was Aisha 9? perhaps the better question is does it matter? Nobody (including Aisha) cared at the time, why should we assume that the morals of today are better than the morals of then? For all we know, eating meat will be considered a grave sin 1000 years from now, will that make any great person today (and there arent many, but for the sake of arguement, imagine one) who isnt a vegetarian flawed in some way? We could talk about this for hours and come to no conclusion. Perhaps it is best to realize that overblowing these modern taboo's that were the norm in Muhammed's day is not hindering Islam in the slightest, therefore those arguements about Aisha are useless as a weapon against Islam. Perhaps, also, it is best for some people to come to terms with religious toleration.

 

Oh man you are so wasting my time did you read it when I said:

then I gave you the Peleoithic theory and the Bold part:

and Erasmus was that the Only referrence I used??? NO here again:

what about all people having marriges in the same age...i'll show you again:

EwokUtopia tried to explain to you as well:

It was a common practise in Arabia at the time, nothing was considered immoral at all about it. Thank you Ewok..
All I get from your posts is that you are an angry Islamophobic person..as It has been clearfied to you several times and you don't even bother reading the whole thing.

May be Dr. Annie Besant was Dumb!!?

Leave your biase away so I can write new things for you instead of repeating the things that you don't read....

All Muslims know this story. as the 1st thing we read and study is the prophet's life. My best scholars are white Europian converts who were historians or experts in cultural accpects or were athiests..I learned it from them,, IT IS A NORMAL THING. may be not in the western society. your story simply doesn't make since because many ppl in the middle east have grandmothers that married when they were around ten beginng with my grandmother (she actuelly was 10) and I see it as a good thing. she was perfectly mature and It was an acceptable thing in the society. Your story that you got from Islamophobic websites are simply Islamophobic OK.
...your problem here is that you aren't here to discuss or critique creatively.. you are here for something else.


peace

 

I caught you trying to include 9 as the same as 13.
Wrong.
Now you are still insulting my intelligence (if that were possible) by once again trying to pretend like we are discussing the facts about 13 year olds.
We are talkign about a 9 year old and Muhammed having intercourse with her.

We are NOT discussing Marriage as we all know that 'betrothals' or 'pre-arranged' marriage have always happened.
Muhammed Married Aisha when she was 6 years old.
He dreamt about her being presented to him even before that.
Fine.

No matter how hard you try and barter and slip and slide the issue you are simply not getting away with making Aisha a Thirteen Year old girl who was married to Muhammed and finished puberty now.
Bullshit.

Nine Year old Bride has intercourse with 53 year old Muhammed.
I dont care if she had STARTED first sign of puberty - she is still a little girl (as this is confirmed by accounts anyways - still playing with dolls).

Yes, I am 'Phobic' of that and if you think that is 'normal' and we should all just accept it then stay the fuck away from my daughter.

Seriously, If Muhammed did that to my Daughter - it would have been the last thing he ever did on this planet.
The fact the nine year old girl was 'his favourite' really shows what a deranged pedophile he was.

My 'Story' is not based on anything but the Koran and Haddith and you know that for a fact.
If you want to tell me something then please do tell me the accounts are false and in error and I would be happy if that is true!

But hey.. so far you are agreeing that Muhammed did intercourse with his nine year old wife and that was acceptable to him.
At least we settled that.

Im still not clear on exactly what he did to the boys he kidnapped from Caravans (after slaughtering the boys parents).
They seem to be described as loot and 'Pearls' for the pleasure of men.
On this topic im not yet clear and if you want to provide some scriptures from Koran or Haddith showing they did not use the boys as homosexual sex toys - Please do!
I would be HAPPY to be shown where Im wrong about that!

Otherwise, Muhammed did do a good job killing lots of people.
At least there is no debate about that.

 

you caught me what man..my posts are up there and I assume people can read. YES she was 9 and nine means mature..she was mature..I previously told you that my grand mother who now became grand grand mother got married when she was 10 like married married, this marrige might have been planned before ..any ways I emphasized that the marrige happened because THIS WAS AN ACCEPTABLE THING AT THAT TIME and even 2 generations ago back home and is still acceptable and does happen in many villages and mountain enviroments.

In psychology, any disorder is defined based on what is normal and what is abnormal and if you read any 1st year introductory book you’ll find that the disorder standard varies from culture to culture and even from time to time.

In Islam around 1500 years ago we had something called Orf which is translated literally known which means The common between people for example, In a society that wear red clothes all the time and if white was considered weared or abnormal then it is not allowed to wear it in public. This actually is called the shohra dress in Islam and is not accepted. Like wise the prophet used to pray with his shoes because ,in the past, there was no carpet. Now a days it is not allowed to get to the mosque with your shoes because it is considered wrong among people.

Like wise and more importantly..In any community that early marriage is not motaraf –common- It is not allowed to do it and is considerd a crime in the commonality of the current century. In the cities in the middle east now a days we don’t do it…we used to do it 50 years back in some cities..In villages they still do it till today and in the desert.



In conclusion, pedophile in modern psychology doesn’t apply to the prophet or my grandfather or a whole nation in different places and times by any means. By Islamic law, no Muslim ever dares to be pedophilic..



And by the way when I said Islamophobic I didn’t mean you fear and care about your doughter -which is compulsory in Islam-…I meant Islamophbic..However, I hope I the point is clearer to you now. I don't mean to insult your intilligance by the way.

There is no such thing ever In Islam -maybe in the imagination of Islamophobic ppl-..Now this is true Islamophobia.. The Arabs didn’t know what is homosexuality at that time and they came to know about the people of prophet Lut –peace be upon him- through the Quran. This appeared centuries after the prophet death. So please get me an evidence of what you are saying about the boys thing, basically cause you are the one who claimed it.


Peace

 

What intelligence? You make fun of me for going to university! Pah!

 

I accept and I obey.
We accept and we obey.

Intelligence is only the shadow of objective Truth.