regardless of whether or not it is legal for minors to possess salvia, they shouldn't. salvia is a herb that may cause serious 'issues' and no minors should do it, regardless of the legality of it (and the maturity of the minors).
In all reality... I have met some 14 year olds that can handle salvia better than a 40 year old Not that I condem nor condone the use of salvia by any person under thier own influence.... ANY REPUTABLE... vendor in CANADA, WILL NOT SELL salvia products to a "minor". It is a legal issue, that is a timebomb waiting to happen (in my opinion) Not many vendors are willing to take on a lawsuit by pissed off parents, who's child might have done something foolish while under the "intoxication" of salvia D. (it's all about the finacial gain for them in the long run!) Az
i seriously question your judgment. my statement was based on the fact that young people lack the days to match the intensity of experience. whatever their conceptual analytic skills may be, no person under the age of 20 (maybe 25) is prepared to integrate salvia into their everyday life. they simply lack the days, and that's all there is to it. it has nothing to do with mentality or maturity. and i think you misunderstand the concept of maturity if you think it is so easily gotten by 14 year olds.
Opinions are wonderful are they not Just as you had a previous opinion of "i just dont think 14 year olds should be doing this"... Others have thier own! Nifty how things work like that! It is not my decision, as I am not the individual that decides to partake in the experince! I can decide who I give leaf, extracts and plants to myself though. Every person is different... an individual. I do not condem nor condone other people's decisions on when THEY choose to partake in something so sacred! ( I can be discretionary when I am involved) I guess my travels have brought me into many different places and has intorduced me to many different people that have a quite developed maturity level. Regardless of age! Speaking of age.... there are 50 year olds with certain handicaps that have altered thier lack of inteligence. How does this factor into your decisons, that formed your own opinions? Sometimes it is best to just ageree to disagree Az
The salient point was that decisions and judgment don't matter; experience does. Regardless of the maturity and judgment, experience works. When one goes through one really fucking intense experience, yet has 20 zillion moments of boredom at a factory at their immediate minds' eye, they are more likely to get over that intense experience and go about their business than a 14 year old with really good judgment and intelligence and many fewer experiences. My point is that it is the mundane that keeps us sane. Spectacular experiences of the psychedelic kind are not for the unexperienced. And I define unexperienced as those who have not experienced the monotony of life. I don't think depth of thinking has anything to do with it--its all about repitition. Lacking the training that life gives us, who has the practical ability to be old, regardless of intelligence? There is a reason the eastern cultures respect their elders and the west do not. Maybe this line of discourse is a good example of it?
As a resident Salvia advocate ... I seriously question your judgment. Your statement which "was based on the fact that young people lack ... days" shows your lack of understanding. I don't know about you, friend, but your generalizations about people under the age of 20 don't hold up to scrutiny. Perhaps MOST people under the age of 20 don't have the maturity to use Salvia in a healthy light, but then again, MOST people of ANY age don't have that kind of maturity. Do you have some proof of these "serious issues?" I've done a lot of research on Salvia, and found all the evidence in the world that there are no serious issues associated with it. It's completely non-toxic and non-harmful to the body, and is metabolized very quickly. Noone has ever died from a Salvia overdose, and noone has had any permanent or even especially elongated side effects from its use. So ... if you make a dumb decision by using bad judgment ... but you have a lot of experience at making dumb decisions by using bad judgment ... you're a cool cat? Who says that Salvia is for "getting over quickly?" The vast majority of Salvia users that I have met, haven't been using Salvia to get a quick "fuck up" or have an intense experience just so they could get over it. It's something to meditate on and think deeply about. So school is not monotony? It is not mudane, run of the mill, boring? Sorry, friend, to me, you just sound like you're babbling about how you are experienced and little kids aren't. You speak from this holier-than-thou position, where you seem to indicate that YOU have some kind of vast experience and great wisdom, that YOU and YOU ALONE have experienced the mundane, lived through the monotony, and survived to warn the rest of us. But it doesn't work like that, chief. Everyone has different experiences. Every experience has anywhere from a miniscule to a drastic affect on a person. No matter how MUCH experience you may have, if your experience isn't as drastic or deep and contemplative as some 14 year old's, what makes you think that your wisdom is greater than his? Just because you're twice as old? Keywords here: "I don't think" No, but seriously here -- you don't think that depth of thinking is important? THEN WHY ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT IT, MORON? How about you go conjure up some of your incredible edible wisdom and experience, and use your natural inborn talent to decide if thinking is important or not? Boy, I am sure glad that our country's leaders didn't think so deeply about the implications of bombing Russia during the Cold War. Here's the whole flaw of your argument: What good is repetition and training IF YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING OUT OF IT. If your mind is dull, if you don't think deeply about the training life has given you? Yes, there is a reason: Because in Eastern culture, disrespect WAS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. People feared for their lives. The West was just a little more reasonable about that. If you lost a fight, you didn't have to commit ritual suicide, you just had to pick yourself up and walk away.
eh, I think you are missing my point, Hz sword boy, I just meant to say that there are perhaps many underlying psychological dispositions that would not rise to the surface of a person's personality without an intense psychological experience (be that experience a stressful one, an emotional one, or a psychedelic one), and that strong psychedelic experiences are of such a nature that they could perhaps trigger such dispositions. All of this is not new news. Salvia is one of the most intense drugs out there--you've admitted as much, no? And so the force of my point was that, if two people are going to do a drug that is intense and may trigger such a disposition (which it might), then the person with many many experiences would be better suited to integrate them into their life. I am talking numbers here--as in 29 years is more than 19, 13 is more than 12. If one is going to be somewhat predisposed to freakout (in the dangerous sense of the word), one would be better off doing it later in ones' life. Studies have shown that most schizophreniacs become so in their midteens to midtwenties. It would be most beneficial, idealistically, if all people who did psychedlics did them after they had established their sanity through experience. And even if they were not so predisposed to psychedelic danger, they could be predisposed to psychedelic stupidity. This is something I've seen in my friends, where they give up their own personality in favor of some lameass risk-taking personality that ends up presenting them with a lame job and no education (save stupid books written by non-college educated mystic RPG playing morons) and a life where they live with their parents (or become financially dependent upon their parents) until they are 30 something with a trailor of their very own. I know its hard for you to believe that such mystical experiences can lead to such dire circumstances, but I've seen it happen more than once, and I think it is rather disturbing. Especially given the fact that, in retrospect, the people that its happened to had alot more to offer to the world than notebooks of garbage written after they dropped acid... Its just a dangerous road to go down. Thats all I was saying. Sheath that sword, and don't call me a MORON, dorko; I'm sure my GPA was/is much higher than yours.
See, this here is the problem. There is a BIG difference between what you MEANT to say, and what you actually said. I don't disagree with what you meant to say. But why? Why is a person with more experience best suited to an extremely intense experience? Because he's had intense experiences before? To me, it seems more like this: ya gotta have your cherry popped sometime, and what better with a controllable psychoactive that has no harmful effects on the body and has a peak that lasts no longer than 10 minutes at most? Granted that perhaps most 12 and 13 year olds can't use the experience in an enlightening or beneficial way, but ... then again, as I said before, most people *in general* regardless of age can't use such an experience in a beneficial way. It's my understanding that people who go nuts from psychadelics do so because they, according to various studies, have underlying psychological problems which the psychadelic substance draws out from hiding, not because they lack experience. And you can stop with the "dorky facial hair and samurai swords in their sig pics" crap. What you're attempting (and failing) to do here is called an Ad Hominem argument. You're just making fun of me and saying that, beacuse there is something objectionable about me, whatever I say must be invalid. Secondly, that's not a samurai sword. Samurai swords are curved. Just so you know. And lastly, what do you define as sane? Do you have that right, to define what is sane? Maybe, if it makes sense to me, but not to you, you're the insane one?
WOW.... a bit to keep up with so I am not going to go indepth. I will say that the "jabs" are not needed Afterall, an intelligent conversation goes alot further. When you speak of experience and age, you are speaking from what you have witnessed and seen.... correct? Or are you one of those arm chair obervers that put all thier faith in the books they have left over from college? People do many different things in thier lives. These things take them to many different places. In my 14 years of non stop train riding, hitching and traveling around N.A., I have ran into many different people. I am only going to focus on the younger ones. I have met 12 year olds with more "experience" and "maturity" than alot of adults. I have met 15 year olds that ran away from home when they were 12 and have now seen every state on thier own and have more wisdom and advice to offer others, who are many more years thier "senior". Some of these kids have been through more things than any 4o year old adult, who has never done nothing nor gone anywhere in his life.... slaving away at a tedious 60 hour a week job to go home and watch tv and drink beer! He will pork his miserable wife and goto bed, only to wake up the next day and start thier cycle over again. You take someone like that and throw him in all kinds of different situations and you will see just how inmature older people can get Some of these "children" have lived through everything you speak of them lacking in your earlier posts. I am sure there are many younger folks that could "school" you like there was no tomorrow! Speaking of my own childhood and your under 20 philosophy.... I skipped two grades in school when I was younger. Dropped out at 15 and went to college. When I turned 17, I enrolled in the Navy and became a hospital corpsman. Recieved FMFS training and off I went as a "doc" with the Marines to serve in the first gulf war. Did what was needed from me and returned. They had so many corpsman from thinking there was going to be a long war (they trained us in abundance), that they offered a bunch of us early outs. I took one of course. That left me 19 years old and free... and I immediately jumped on Dead lot. Hmmmmm 19.... just under your mark for maturity? Best thing I have read in this thread yet Two words that stick out the most are "most" and "in general" .... ok, three words Though the precentage of these younger individuals are small, they are there! Az
