suffering

doesn't the Buddha contradict himself, in saying that "in all beings there is suffering" then saying "there is a way to end suffering"?

If all beings experience suffering, how can a being be without suffering? It's like saying "all beings need water" then saying "there is a way for beings to not need water".

In either case, it seems the only way out is death. A dead being doesn't suffer.

 

I suffer,

but when I ceases,
there is no more to create suffering.

 

All mystics contradict themselves. It can't be helped because they use our language which is itself contradictory.

There is the story of a man who came to Buddha and asked him if there was a God. He said No.

Later on that day there came another man who asked the same question and Buddha said Yes.

His main disciple asked him why he was being contradictory. Buddha said that each question, and therefore questioner, was unique so the answer also had to be unique, according to each individual's need.

So first you will have to find out the meaning of suffering and whether it applies to you, and if so to what degree. Having found this out, then find out who and what this "I" is that suffers.

 

Ahhhh, profound words of wisdom, somebody that understands Buddha's sense of cosmic humor and is comfortable with paradoxes... I bet you respect other mystics besides buddhist ones, do you not?

 

How is that "cosmic humour?"

 

"If you don't have a sense of humor, it just isn't funny." - Wavy Gravy

 

Buddha said what he said because there are both suffering of samsara, the endless repetitive viscious cycle of reward and punishment, and also that which is the antithesis of the cycle or the yogic summation of the Buddha's teachings about karma, and life's work all of which leads to liberation from the cycle of repetitive existance. The Triple Gem is a masterwork of liberation which helps in many ways. From consciousness, to the body of the doctrine, to the person who helps you when you get trapped in samsara, this is the basis for the transfer from suffering to bliss. Or simple Sri Mahaparashakti Kundalini, whichever you prefer.

 

"If it ain't funny, you can't have much of a sense of humour, now can you?" - Me

 

Exactly. What Iw as about to say with a hundred words you captured with great brevity.

All creatures suffer, but when you are no longer a creature, but creation itself?

 

Most assuredly. Here in Arizona it tends to taint, or at least support, American Indian Shamanism (although I would never go the way of the Will, I could at least learn to see the world clearly, seeing significance in the smallest things; seemingly superstituous and tied to ritual (as most people are, whether they know it or not.))

 

Angutara Nikaya, Book of 10's, Sutta 13
Sanyojana Sutta - (Fetters)

"There are these ten fetters.

Which ten?

Five lower fetters & five higher fetters.

And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at rules & rituals (precepts & practices), sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters.

And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters.

And these are the ten fetters."

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I asked if he respected other mystics besides buddhist ones, to which he responded.

Darrel what do you think of that? I mean you said because I follow and learn from all kinds of different mystics, talk about the unity of all religions and didn't take buddha literally and so on that I am gonna have a bad rebirth before. And I compared that to christian fundemenalist saying people will go to hell if they do not follow Jesus literal and believe in him as thier lord and savior.

Is he ensuring a bad rebirth by not following the teachings of a certain buddhist sect connected with the historical buddha totally and completly?

Or did you just use that line against me because I struck a nerve in you?

 

Again you are not speaking the truth.

DK: Buddha never taught a "Supreme consciousness". ... All that he taught was the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. All his teachings revolve around those teachings. The Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path are the core of The Buddha's teachings. All teachings from there are expounding on the core teaching ... You should not go about teaching falsities. Such false teachings will lead to rebirth in an undesirable realm... (http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2101497#post2101497) :H

No, GanjaPrince, actually, I did not say "because you follow and learn from all kinds of different mystics, talk about the unity of all religions and didn't take buddha literally and so on that you are gonna have a bad rebirth ..."

DK: It's relatively easy to take something out of context to fit whatever ideology we wish to proliferate. (http://hipforums.com/forums/showthr...357#post2084357)

And that was a repeat, for the second time, just so there's no room for misrepresentation.

If you want to say I said anything, you should say it the way I did say it, and not the way you want to intrepret it.

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Darrel told me before,

"You, and I suspect your teacher, are (a) false teacher(s). Spreading rumors here and there that Buddha taught this or that when in fact he did offer no such teachings or thoughts.

All that he taught was the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. All his teachings revolve around those teachings. The Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path are the core of The Buddha's teachings. All teachings from there are expounding on the core teaching and in none of his teachings have there ever appeared the word(s) "Supreme consciousness".

You should not go about teaching falsities. Such false teachings will lead to rebirth in an undesirable realm."

Lama Surya Das
Lama Surya Das was born Jeffrey Miller in Long Island, NY, and attended the State University of Buffalo. After studying with such spiritual masters as Neem Karoli Baba and various Tibetan Buddhist teachers, he helped found the SEVA organization and the Dzogchen Foundation in Cambridge, MA. A member of the International Padmakara Translation Committee, Mr. Das has been active in translating, editing and publishing Buddhist books and scriptures for many years. He is known for his clear, conversational writing style.


This really amazing buddhist teacher learned from my guru Neem Karoli Baba. Lama Kalu Rinpoche encouraged Ram Dass to deepen his connection to his guru Neem Karoli Baba...

So my "teacher" as you put it, is not a false teacher in the eyes of these prominent buddhist teachers.

The point is...

Buddha (the historical one) realized fully the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS taught of the one consciousness through a series of cosmic jokes. The same as Jesus realized the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS and taught it through a series of cosmic jokes...

They never directly said, "one consciousness" but I pointed out in other posts how thier teachings speak of this supreme truth.

The teachings point on in the right direction, but they are fingers pointing at the moon!

Wouldn't you rather see the moon, then get all hung up on a finger?

The moon is IT, that which cannot be put into a concept which esseitially limited... When I say "one consciousness" and explain what it means, it is also just a finger pointing at the moon... yes it described the moon accurately, but it cannot begin to explain it fully...

"this is what mans journey into consciousness is all about...this is OM (home) its going OM. this is the place! becoming one with GOD returning it’s the return to the roots that the two talks about, it is the stillness * the calmness * the fulfillment. when you make love and experience the ecstacy of unity...that’s the place! when you experience a great achievement. and you feel a moment of exhilaration...that’s the place! when you see a moment of poetry in a flower or in words or in art the way it’s supposed to be...this is the place! RIGHT HERE! it’s buddha consciousness. it’s christ consciousness. Jesus says:
I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE when the buddha says: you give up attachment and you finish with the illusion, THIS IS THE PLACE!" - Ram Dass

Buddha's teaching is in holding up the rose, it is in his living example of being beyond attachment, his teachings are designed to help that.

The 4 noble truths fit right in with the sermon on the mount and the bhagavad gita and the kabbalah and the sufi poetry of Rumi!

The historical BUDDHA WAS NOT SPECIAL!

There are tons of Buddhas that reached Buddha's level of realization.


And I know beyond a doubt, that posting about this will not lead to a bad rebirth.

 

That may [not] be entirely correct. One has to give props to Guatama for showing the way, for being the first, for having first attained.

There could very well be many Enlightened mystics since Buddha, say, Krishna, Manjoor, Moses, Mohammed, RamaKrisna, Bodhirama, Dogen, Lao Tzu, Jesus, Herculictus, Pythagoras, Jiddu Krishnamurti, et. al.

They can claim that their Enlightenment is the same as Buddha's, but it can never be the same, for they were different persons with different backgrounds, they will speak differently. In that sense Buddha is the original, the first.

I think that Shakyamuni Buddha was special. To say that he wasn't in light of subsequent Realised Beings may be disengenious, it may be a rationalisation (which is being said by an unrealised being.) I'd like to hear what other Realised Beings say or said about Shakyamuni.

 

Why? The first student to get the answer right is elevated so the other students know that the answer is right, not because of personal merit. Buddha is an example of a student being taught in the correct manner by the teacher, it is the teacher that deserves credit, not Buddha.

 

Well, he did start the first monastery at which he taught meditational science. I believe until then there weren't any such things as monasteries, so he gets credit for that. Supposedly some of his monks became Enlightened too, which helped spred Buddhism. At some time convents were also erected, so it wasn't just males which now had the 'hope' of the ending of suffering.

I disagree. I believe that while he may have tried most disciplines, he eventually rejected them all, especially diety based and nihilism based. The story goes that at some point all his teachers could not teach him anything else, anymore. And so he left them and went looking elsewhere. His realisation was due to his own efforts, not others.

 

If you come to mix the englightment state as being "almost" the same, then you 'd better check a good chronology.
I don't think Moses claimed something as my "thing" is like buddha

I do think Buddha was special,
if you want me to speak like you do,
he had his personal way to be,
no matter of how others were, he had its own way to be

GPo not try to show that you are right, it seems very pathetic to those who think you are

 

Buddha wasn't the first to go that far into realization... there was a golden age around 11,000 BCE, as our speicies evolved we became aware of the one consciousness, the unity in a way different then other species, one that allowed us to function almost with a power over our enviroment, through deep surrender to the one consciousness. We were out of the trees, yet not yet towards the last golden age, and were hunter'gatherer. in these more enligthened times we would functiong as one tribe, have amazing healing power, there would be mushroom eating and orgies, and we would use our conciousness connection with the mother to work out a deal to stay free from diseases and dangers... yet our unity wasn't strong, and as thousands of years pass by it was effected by the sun binary star partner which is talked about by the ancients and yogananda's group (www.thegreatyear.com) thus we weren't through this cycle known to the hindus as the yugu cycle, and the greeks as the great year... Eventually this lead to the last golden age, where great civilization in Africa, India and so on were built ruled by very high enligthened sages on Buddhas level. Then we descended to the kali yugu and the civilizations got worse and worse until the dark ages which was the lowest... now on the upswing... things are moving in the right direction, towards the here now, towards the one consciousness which is already always here, everywhere and all that is... so really only moving toward it in realization...