counterfeit cigars in "reputable" tobaccanists shops?

i went to the best known and trusted tobaccanist in my town the other day and purchased, among other cigars, a cohiba. now i'm pretty new to the cigar world, but like with anything else i've been learning as i go along and i did look into a few things before i went out and started buying premium cigars.

i know that cohiba is a famous cuban brand, and like most other famous cuban brands (montecristo, romeo y julieta, etc.) after the embargo was begun there were operations bearing the same name set up in other countries with similar climates in order to provide their cigars to the US market. cohiba cigars that can be legally purchased in the US come from the dominican republic.

from what i understand, and from all the pictures i've seen of cohibas at online, the authentic dominican cohibas have a large red dot filling the center of the "o" in cohiba. this apparently leads people to calling them "red dot" cohibas, to distinguish from the illegal but widely sought cuban variety. also, do a google image search for cohiba, and you'll notice two types: cuban and dominican, with pretty different packaging.

cuban cohibas?:
dominican cohibas:

a bundle of cigars bearing the same bands as the cigar i bought: the label on the bundle is just an enlarged version of the band. note the facte that it looks fairly close to the cuban band with the white dots on a black field at the top, the absence of the red dot, and the yellow field on the bottom of the band. note also that the lettering and words over the yellow seem to match that of the red dot cohibas "REPUBLICA DOMINICANA"

now, like i said, i'm new to the cigar world and all i know about it i've learned in the past week or so. i don't know just how the market works.

is it common to be ripped off by tobaccanists? will they sell you fakes?
or is the "red dot" cohiba company entirely seperate from the cuban company, and there may be more than one knock off brand?
could it be legal for two brands in the US to carry the same name and such similar labeling? are there perhaps different kinds of cohibas available that i'm just simply unaware of that for whatever bizarre reason lack the indicative red dot and other features of its labeling, but bear instead labeling more close to its cuban counterparts?

i'm having trouble figuring this out. i DO know that i really enjoyed it, so i'm not that pissed. but it was nearly 6 dollars for one fucking cigar (moderately priced in the grand scheme of things, i'm well aware!) and i'd like to know if i'm being ripped off. if i was sold a fake cohiba for six bucks, i'd hate to find out i also picked up a fake ashton heritage for almost 12 dollars....

regardless, after prying around online a bit, i found a site selling bundles of cohiba "yellow band" for 40 bucks (some discount place, says the retail value for the bundle is normally nearly 100 bucks for 25, which works out pretty well in terms of the price i paid for my cigar bought in the store. retail they'd still be cheaper as a bundle than as singles, and 25 for 100 would work out to about 4 bucks a smoke, which is just a buck less than i paid in the shop)

even if they aren't legitimate, i suppose if i can get them for less than 2 bucks a peice by buying a bundle i might as well. i suppose so long as i enjoy them that i shouldn't worry about it....

but still. i'm kinda pissed if i got screwed...

 

i read up a bit more about the history of cohiba. apparently there are (i think) three non-cuban brands called cohiba, and some will say one or the other isn't authentic, but of course none of them are going to be like a cubans anyway so it doesn't really matter.

oh well, whatever. i found a place selling bundles of the ones i bought for about 40 bucks! these go for over 5 dollars at the tobacco shop here. a bundle of 20 for about 2 bucks a peice is a great deal. i even found a site offering the bundle for as low as 30 dollars! next paycheck i might have to invest in an inexpensive humidor and a bundle of these or some macanudo seconds or something. since i liked the cigar, i might as well go for that. expensive cigars are nice and all, but i'd like to switch to smoking a cigar or two a day and cutting out cigarettes completely. if i'm going to do that, i can't just go down to the shop and pay 3-7 bucks per cigar...i'm going to need to find some good quality affordable everyday smokes.

right now i'm in the middle of enjoying an ashton heritage puro sol (corona gorda) and i'm utterly in awe of how good it is! i had to find out what an 11 dollar cigar is like, and i'm not even a little sorry i spent so much for it even though it probably could have been had for less somewhere else. its VERY smooth and almost creamy....and a terrific draw and burn, even outside in the wind. nice to wake up with this and some good coffee.....i love days off from work

 

Real cohibas cost wayyy more. I bought a couple of them, spent about $10-15 a piece. I personally prefer trinidad reyes. If you want to get a good idea regarding quality cigars, try out the test package at http://www.cigarone.com/cigar-shop/make-your-own-samplers.php?taille=1

You can mkae your own box of the big brands

 

i've been hitting up the tinderbox lately

so far i've tried these....

independencia by la aurora (belicoso)
flor de oliva gold (robusto)
cao criollo (corona gorda)
arturo fuente (petite corona)
ashton heritage puro sol (forget what size)
la niña (robusto...think this is a house blend or something, no clue who rolls these)
cohiba yellow band

i've been doing a bit of reading and from what i can tell the yellow band dominican's are just as legitimately cohiba as the red dot cohibas which sell for over twice the cost. however you could say neither of these are "real" cohibas, the cubans. but then again, the cuban cohibas sold today aren't the same as the cohibas from a few decades ago.

regardless of where it's from it all boils down to a matter of taste. the dominican red dot cohibas are preferred by many people to the modern cuban incarnation of the cohiba brand, and due to NOT being cuban they are a good bit cheaper. cheaper still are the yellow bands, which i think are pretty good because i like a smoother milder flavor in general and am not experienced enough with cigars to fully appreciate some of the more complex and full bodied flavors of some cigars such as cubans or, as i understand they tend to be even moreso, the red dots.

i've been looking online, reading about cigars and looking at whats available for sale as well. there are some terrific deals on discounted humidors, and even some good deals for getting decent everyday cigars without spending much money on them. at any rate, as soon as i get a humidor and a bundle of some decent everyday cigars, i'm also going to get a sample pack or two of premiums from various places. there are some really good deals online for these, too.

what i'm most likely going to do though is order some bundles of either decent quality affordable cigars (like the flor de olivas) or some premium seconds (cigars rolled with the same tobacco, by the same people, in the same way as premium brands with intent to be sold in boxes as macanudos, partagas, davidoff, puros indios, and so on, but which due to very slight imperfections such as discoloration or too many veins in the wrapper or whatever cannot be sold under these names. instead they are sold in bundles for extremely low costs, and generally smoke and taste just like the name brands - they're just slightly less pretty, sometimes imperceptibly so)

 

picked up some more a. fuente petit coronas tonight, as well as another one of those cheaper yellow band cohibas.

i also picked up two cigars from drew estate which i've been wanting to see what the commotion's all about. i've heard VERY mixed things about these cigars - for some people theyre the embodiment of enjoyable tobacco, but to others they are disgusting....

i picked up blondie from the acid label, and juicy lucy from the naturals label. both are very small but the drew estate brands seem to be prestigous enough to get away with charging the price of a bigger premium cigar for these tiny guys. more power to them, i guess.

i smoked the jucy lucy, and i enjoyed it a lot but it's not really my cup of tea, and i will probably not buy it again. it tasted terrific, but i won't shell out nearly 5 bucks for a 10-15 minute smoke. the construction was decent, but it could stand to be a bit more tightly rolled. it got a bit soft towards the end. the taste and aroma were both very nice, and many millions of times better than smoking a low quality flavored cigar like a phillies blunt or a white owl, but its just not quite what i want in a cigar. perhaps on occasion, but i want more of a classic tobacco flavor. the jucy lucy measures up to an itty bitty 3X38. the blondie i'm anxious to try, a friend of mine claims it as his favorite cigar. still, the fact that it's acid rather than natural would lead me to believe it is probably MORE untraditional and possibly sweeter or more strongly flavored. the blondie's a tad longer at 4", but it still only comes to a 38 ring size.

i'm anxious, but not TOO anxious. i might smoke it tomorrow. probably not. probably will stick with the arturo fuente.

 

A few things to note. more expensive cigars by the same company tend to be rolled much better, with less veins on the wrapper, as well as a more even burn. The filler tends to be of a longer cut, and may be cured better. Also important is to note the age. In general, any cigar you buy should be aged for at least a week in a humidor... many should be kept there for quite some time. I personally suggest buying some very good (and expensive) ones and placing them near the bottom, and save them for a special occasion.

My personal favorite are the Trinidad Reyes, and I suggest you try them. They have a rich nutty/woody taste. The aftertaste is very good, and they have a better taste as time progresses (not too long). Romeo y Julieta is another favorite brand of mine, and their taste is a bit more sweet, with the body of it being slightly lighter than the Trinidad. The Bolivar Petit Corona's are great for the money, as are the Montecristo's. Fumadores are excellent, and last quite sometime (at a significant price). Just as a sidenote, don't drink caffeinated beverages or beverages taht are strongly acidic/pungent. I would suggest a coffee liqeur, irish cream, cognac, or a good scotch to acompany cigars. I personally recommend Courvoisier VSOP, and if you have deep pockets, the XO. At duty free shops, XO is reasonably cheap; just go for a well-known brand (hennessy, courvoisier, etc.). Despite my love of gin, it's not the drink at all for cigars. A more bodied liquor is more preferable.

I'm mostly familiar with habanos, because they are my personal preferance in cigars. Pipe tobacco is the other thing (tobacco) I smoke, and I suggest purchasing an aromatic blend.

 

You should also note taht $5 is a relatively inexpensive cigar. Many of the better brands can cost upwards of $20 for a larger cigar.

 

thats very true, but you must know as well as anybody that higher prices do not ALWAYS mean higher quality.

last night i placed an order online for a small 25-50ct humidor for about 21 dollars, an extra 7 bucks for a hygrometer, and a box of la vieja habana - cedar chateau no. 1 (20ct box) for 23 dollars. all together i spent about 63 bucks, and in a few days i'll have my own humidor and a box of highly rated cigars.

23 bucks for a box of cigars? they can't be good, most people would assume.

yet despite the fantastically low price, cigar afficianado has given them a rating of 87. the ratings are out of 100, and getting as high as 100 is pretty unheard of. to help give some perspective on the significance of an 87 rating at such a low price, here are some more well known and established cigars, their prices and their ratings:

CAO Brazilia - Samba (6.25X54)
rating: 87
price per box of 20: $96.26

Dunhill - Peravia (7X50)
rating: 87
price per box of 20: $204.95

Gurkha Regent - Toro (6X50)
rating: 88
price per box of 20: $174.95

Romeo y Julieta Vintage - No. 5 (7.5X50)
rating: 87
price per box of 25: $174.95

Graycliff Original - PG (5.25X50)
rating: 87
price per box of 25: $339.95

and now for some comparison of what some of the experts think of modern day cubans....these brands all have non-Cuban counterparts, but these ratings are for the Cubans...

Cohiba Siglo I and Cohiba Edición Limitada 2003 Double Corona both scored an 87

so did the Bolivar Churchill and Bolivar Royal Corona. the Petit Corona, oddly enough, ranked at 91, despite the fact that larger cigars tend to dominate the higher rankings.

H. Upmann Connoisseur No. 1 scored a 91.

Romeo y Julieta Cedros De Luxe No. 2 scored an 88.

and you know how much people pay for cubans.....

[all ratings based on the highly respected publication Cigar Aficionado's ratings of these cigars]

so basically my point is that it doesnt matter how much you're spending on your cigars, there ARE affordable HIGH QUALITY cigars, and i fully expect the Vieja Habanas to be a great deal. there are plenty of 90+ rated cigars that cost significantly less than some of their more expensive competitors, and the same goes for cigars ranking in the high 80s. i've never read any poor customer reviews regarding the brand i'm buying, and cigar afficionado felt it was good enough to be ranked among some very prestigious brands which go for far more than twice the cost of these. of course i'll admit to picking really expensive cigars with similar ratings for my comparisons just to make my point - there ARE other affordable 80-90 rated cigars, just usually not quite AS affordable as the ones i'm getting this time.

then again, although the people rating cigars for magazines are considered experts, and the ratings do carry a lot of weight in the industry, it all boils down to taste, really. the independencia by la aurora received a rating of 90, and the ashton heritage corona gorda also received a rating of 90. while i cannot in ANY way deny that both are high quality, well made, enjoyable cigars, i would hands down choose the ashton over the indepencia any day of the week. the independencia, while a good cigar, still was one of my less favored among what i've tried so far.

basically just because 5 dollars isn't an "expensive" cigar in light of the fact that some larger cigars by more well known brands can run as high as 20 bucks, it still can be considered costly if you smoke every day. if you smoke two five dollar cigars, you could have bought two or more packs of cigarettes and smoked for a few days. but cost is rarely reflective purely of quality; it also has to do with where the cigar is from, how well known the company is, how much the company advertises, how long the company has been around, and so on. there are a few cheaper cigars i've tried (such as the flor de oliva gold robusto, the arturo fuente petit corona, and the yellow band cohibas) that i would actually prefer to a few of the more expensive brands i've tried. cost isn't the issue for me so much as how much i enjoy the cigars.

when you're talking about a special treat, an occasional cigar, 5 dollars is low cost. i'd gladly spend 10-15 bucks on a REALLY nice cigar. but if i'm smoking every day, i want something more affordable, more in the 3-dollars or less range. and if i can get a highly rated, well reviewed cigar for less than 2 bucks a peice, why the hell would i even consider smoking more expensive cigars on a regular basis? at 23.00 for 20 cigars, thats less than $1.25 a peice, even.....for a price so low and a rating so high, i'm willing to take my chances.

 

btw, the acid - blondie is good. not great. good. i'm not much for flavored cigars, but i'd heard these are waaaaaay better than you'd expect when you hear the phrase "flavored cigar"

they're definitely very tastey and pretty enjoyable, and the blondie seems to be much better constructed than the jucy lucy. still, i prefer a more strictly tobacco flavor. these might be good as a sort of dessert cigar, or sometimes just for something different. but different is the key word here, and different isn't always a great thing.

 

have you tried the ACID cigars, particularly the ACID, KUBA KUBA? That is prolly my favorite cigar ever. Right now i am enjoying a Macanudo hampton court, which is superb.

 

my last post, the one right before yours, was my opinion on acid blondie. i haven't had the kuba kuba though. i like this, infinitely better than a strawberry phillies, but i disagree with a lot of people who say that its more like a regular cigar than a flavored cigar. just because it's quality tobacco and its not flavored to resemble anything specific in particular doesnt mean its not still another flavored cigar....

its good, a bit too sweet and overwhelming for me. too incense-y. this acid blondie is the second thing by drew estate i've tried, the first being the miniscule natural jucy lucy (three big lines for drew estate - acid, natural, and ambrosia)

oddly enough, the vieja habanas i ordered are produced by drew estate, and are their only "normal" cigars.

 

btw, has anyone here tried buying seconds? how do they generally compare to firsts? i'm sure theres at least the occasional stick you have to throw out because it just wont smoke right, but i've read most of the imperfections in seconds aren't even noticable, and those that are rarely affect the taste or smokability - they just aren't as pretty as firsts.

if its true that they're nearly as good as firsts, i'd be pretty excited to try a few different types for inexpensive day to day smoking.

 

I used to manage a cigar bar in st louis. Cuban Cohibas retail for 25-30 in most locations in the US. Domincan Cohibas, the red dot that is, are a great buy in the 10-20 range. CAO is the reason people don't smoke cubans as much. They provide an inexpensive, most are under 10, consistent quality in a wide variety of heaviness.
Drew Estates are very popular and were our hardest to keep in stock, especially the juicy lucy. I personally do not like them, their flavor I can't stand. It is just too sweet if you will.
Buying seconds is a usually ok since htey are real cheap and a similar smoke to the first. You tend to get more veins in the wrapper leaves. They tend to burn unevenly and some won't burn at all.

Anything else let me know.
oh yeah
Many shops do carry the knock off yellow label dominican cohibas for two reasons. One is they get screwed by a distributor who says they have yellow label. Two is for the uninformed easy sale.
There is currently a pending lawsuit/court decision involving cohiba. and name usage. R and J has a cuban and a non cuban branch whereas the cohibas are not related thus red dot receives success off the name recognition.

 

yeah, so far i'm very impressed with the quality of the drew estate cigars i've tried, and while i liked the flavors they still detracted from the experience. i prefer a more traditional flavor, i think. which is why i'm excited to try the vieja habanas, i'm anticipating good quality i'd expect from drew estate, but with a MUCH more traditional approach to making cigars. they're cheap enough i'm willing to take a gamble and buy an entire box before tasting them.

i think i'm next going to buy some seconds. any brands that you would recommend, show? i was thinking macanudos, but there are a large number of seconds to choose from...




(i know it would take a -very- skilled hand and some extra bucks to spare, but i'd love to try a blunt rolled from a blondie)

 

macanudos or any other big time brand would be a good seconds (h.upman or montecristo)

a blondie blunt would be quite an experience even though I'm not a fan of either blunts nor blondies it might be a solid combination.

If you get stuck with a box that you find you just don't like...keep the cigars in good shape and they make great gifts

 

got my first package in the mail today...a plastic pocket humidor for up to three cigars for when i go out, and a box of 16 LVH toro tubos. the metal tubes kept them fresh till they arrived, and they're in great smokable condition! i was uneasy about it cause i heard most cigars come somewhat dried out when they've been in the mail, and i assume the other box i have coming today (along with a 50ct humidor) will be a bit more dried out, since they aren't individually sealed in airtight tubes.

anyway, these are FANTASTIC cigars for the price! i've already smoked one, and it had just a slightly uneven burn and it was a little quicker of a smoke than some other cigars of the same size, however taste and quality were still very high. i would VERY READILY claim to enjoy this cigar as much as or MORE THAN many that i've paid $6-10 a peice for, and this box cost me less than two dollars per stick. my opinion of drew estate has risen far higher today, and these will DEFINITELY be a staple of my smoking diet, so to speak.

last night i had a macanudo hyde park, and it was also terrific, but burned a good bit longer than the LVH toro did. still, another great mild cigar. i think i'll definitely invest in some macanudo seconds, but i might lean more towards maduro....that should make for a somewhat fuller flavor, right? i'd like to have some medium bodied cigars to switch it up with.

 

Words of advice. If you buy seconds, quarantine any new arrivals for a few weeks. If there's any bugs in them, you don't want them getting into your main stash. Actually, this applies to any new cigars. You should just bite the bullet and get a good wooden humidor. One with a humidity and temp gauge.

 

Maduro wrappers (good ones) tend to a have a very heavy smoke / body. Draw lightly, because it's a bit of a surprise. I prefer wrappers near maduro, but a bit closer to a claro. Maduro wrappers usually have a nutty, woody taste to them, that's pretty heavy. Quite a bit of flavor, and quite a good one if you like cigars.

 

where do you go to get your cigars...the only store I've been to around here is the Humidor on Cleveland ave.

 

Maduro is a much fuller smoke. CAO brazilla and italia are maduro level fullness. However, my favorite maduro is the CAO MX2, I highly recommend them for a fuller smoke. They have a double maduro wrapper, quite the experience.
CAO creola (not sure on the spelling) is a nice medium to full smoke that adds a variety to an smokers' diet.
keep me posted on how they go....oh and your new 50 ct humidor, I assume it is lined with spanish cedar?