Mr. Impossible Man

I'm pretty fond of the ESV at the moment I like the way it reads. But yeah go to any United Pentecostal chuch and see how much twisted logic they feed you!

 

I do admit, also, that I have a strong allergic reaction to the word "God", as well. So, my bias towards the "sky daddy" version leads me to reject this word. I suppose, like Hikky Z, I could be pantheistic, but I just wonder why a naturalist pantheist would even use the term in the first place.

A recent friend of mine, who is into Spinoza, recommended a book to me called "Conversations With God". Heard of it?

 

I've heard/seen the title some where but you know I think i've probley seen a million books with the same title lol!

The last time my uncle went to church he started to throw up and ran a high fever, as soon as he left he stopped throwing up and was just fine. Needless to say He dosen't really belive in the sky daddy either . Living with him is one of the main reasons I look at religion like I do.

pantheistic naturalist? hmmmm I can't wrap my mind around that one....Kinda Nihilistic lol.

 

I just cannot find any reason to even consider the "supernatural" as any kind of explanation for anything. I think history is on my side on this one, too. I honestly see these people as either deceived or deceivers. I guess it's just the David Hume in me.

 

I think people are so caught up in the supernatural fad that they give it such a askewed image. I belive in spirits and etc so while I have supernatural tendices I don't belive a Ghost is the spirit of a deceased person but an "demon"*(that probely took away any of my creditiblty haha) simply stayed in the form of the last body he inhabited, or simply its some natural life form that has yet to be discovered. I mean whose to say that these possible "beings" just live on a diffrent wave length then us?That problley has no scientific backing but its just a thought

 

Well, I really begin to doubt for these reasons:

1) No experience that I couldn't really attribute to some logical explanation.
2) That which I could not attribute to logic, I kept as a mystery that was yet to be explained.
3) And since all past mysteries (which were later explained) were explained by natural means (and most of them made the past "mystic" explanations look foolish), I saw no reason to make my experiences exempt from this fact. Besides "unexplained" doesn't equal "supernatural" or even "inexplicable".
4) Finally, I realized that the Hebrew and Greek words for spirit and soul were frighteningly different than what I had thought before-- "nephesh", "psuche", "pneuma", etc. all meant something related to "breath" or "vital principle", whilst the "psuche" was where we get our term "psyche". Thus, it became clear to me that a spirit was just the energy which animated the being and the soul was the mind. These are all very natural.

 

We have our spirit, soul, and body. Our spirit is like you said what animates the body, the true us *IMHO*, the soul is our mind our *heart* so to speak, and the body is just an insturment.

 

So, where is it that we disagree? Only, I see the "heart" as your emotions, because it is obvious you are not speaking of your blood pumper.

 

you've got it right with the heart thing. I don't think we really disagree much on that subject. Other then I don't know if the spirit is engery or not so I can't say we really disagree on that. If you think about it God never said he was Supernatural, the word itself is kind of a oxymoron by defention. A friend put it this way while we were talking one day. "If God exist he can't be supernatural, because in the simplest terms anything that exist is really natural how can it not be?" I do think God is the ultimate being and creator....But I don't really know what he is. I don't think he is sitting up there in human form...because when he came to moses he was a burning bush, and he needed Jesus to dwell in while he was on earth. If hes already in human form why use a bush and body? I think is "supernatural" in that sense as far as "transecending" what we know as "natural" at the moment. But that by no means means he is a ghost or something.

 

Here's the way I see it.

Matter/Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only change form. Thus, it is conceiveable to me to say the energy (which is the animated force), always existed and always will in some form (even matter...for that matter). The universe we talk of now is the observable universe, but the cause of it, came from something outside the observable universe in the "outer" cosmos, apparently.

Thus, I see a reason to go with the theory of a cyclic energy (which is natural) instead of supernatural. I don't call it "God", but rather, "nature".

 

That make sense.

 

Holy shit...we are agreeing.

This is sort of frightening.

 

hehe next slasher flick?

 

If you had enough personal experience with 'spiritual' things to make you believe there was something else out there, even if it was your subjective experience and you couldnt prove it to anyone else, although you believed without a doubt your experience was real. Would you put any stock into it?

If so have you ever studied Eastern religions and philosophies that use exercises like meditation and yoga for spiritual growth and experience instead of leaving it up to faith like Christianity does. Or Western Esoterics for those of us not used to the Eastern way of life, but would still rather rely on our minds and personal experience instead of blind faith.

In order to follow one of those philosophies you have to be willing to accept a few beliefs and follow the practices set out for you, with the possiblilty that its all bullshit and your wasting your time or possibly its not and you would be rewarded with the proof your looking for.

 

Scary.

 

Hee bee jee bees

 

First, being involved in the art of illusion (or magic), I deal with subjective experience and the gullibility of humans constantly. People are so willing to attribute the unexplained to supernatural forces with no effort. I see this consistently. Even though I explain afterwards that I have NO powers, I still have people say "You are psychic, you just don't know it!" or "You DO have powers!". Yep, I do. The power to fool ya.

Second, just because something is unexplained doesn't mean it is inexplicable nor does it equal "supernatural".

Yes, here and there. I can almost get into Buddhism and Taoism.

I don't consider it bullshit unless it flies in the face of reason, and has no evidence to back it up other than an "I felt it" or "I said so".

 

The problem is you have not been shown the truth yet. You will change your tune when you are. I said the same things you do now before I was shown the truth (by God), so I understand where you are coming from. The simple truth is until you are shown (by God) the truth of God's existence, you will still base all your arguments against God's existence on ignorance (because you lack the requisite evidence (which can only be provided by God) to convince you otherwise).

No person can give you this evidence, and truthfully, I do not know (specifically) why God has not shown you the truth yet. Don't take this as an insult, it's not intended as such; but for now, you are a lot like a kid who says 'My parents are wrong to force me to go to school, I don't need to learn how to read and write!'

Do you understand that if you do not yet have all the prerequisite information to understand something, the truth can deceive you? God does not intentionally deceive by showing you the truth, it just so happens that you have not seen enough of it to understand it completely (I don't either).

God has the evidence. The question is why haven't you turned to God for the evidence instead of asking people (for hearsay) which you refuse to believe?

 

Those who love to lie might get caught in the trap of seeing truth as deception. You just have to understand the difference between entertaining fiction and beautiful truth.

I was drinking with a bunch of buddies once at some person's house. I told them I could do a card trick, that they could pick any card out of the deck, and I would be able to pick it out of the deck without seeing where they put it in. The first time, I did the old bend the card on the top of the deck and have them put it on top.

They asked "How did you do this?" and I told them.

So they said do it again, but this time, leave the deck with us, walk out of the room while we pick a card and put it in the deck without letting you mark its place. I walked out and came back in when they were ready. They handed me the deck and said "Now pick the card fucker!"

I started to shuffle the deck, cut it a few times, shuffled it around a bit more. I cut the deck and showed them the bottom card of the cut and said "This is your card." They said "How the fuck did you do that?" I told them it was a secret.

 

Yep, a reflection of His character. And Yea, I think that logic presupposes God, but that's part of my whole argument ;-)