Does anyone really believe in peace?

I disagree. It could change. If people put forth the effort. It won't necessarily stop, but it will make us a better world.

If everyone agrees to nonviolence and lives by it, why does anyone need to keep the peace? We'd all already be peaceful.

Most people didn't want to address the issue of slavery in the early 1800s because it was viewed as a problem that would eventually die off on its own and no change in the current state was thought to be possible. Granted, it took a war to eventually solve that, but the war itself was something like you said, that escalated from a disagreement, not completely over the issue itself.
The only way we'll get peace and harmony is everyone wants it. If people don't have faith in it, then it'll never happen. Do you lack that much faith?

How is there no selfless deed? And aren't some deeds less greed-ridden than others? I want peace because peace is possible and I don't want families/countries/children particularly to suffer from the effects of a war that could be prevented. Why? Because I think that if my parents were raped or murdered by war mongerers, I would be the slightest bit upset too.
Yes. I don't want people to be murdered by the ramifications of war. No death? That's impossible. People will always be dying. You misinterpret my arguement if that's what you think I believe.

Do you believe in eternity? People would still die from disease, suicide, medical malpractice, etc. Some will probably still be murdered, but a lot fewer if world peace were not that far out of grasp.

Are fist-fights inevitable then?

 

I disagree. I don't think capital punishment should be an option. It doesn't solve the issue. It just causes more grief.
I've been raped before. I know the feelings incited by being violated when you're very young. I know the fear, the timidity, the lonliness. Killing the attacker would not make these things go away but just show the attacker's family that I'm just another spoiled brat only thinking for myself.

 

The most disturbing thing about conservatives is that they believe some people are inherently evil and that their "goodness" justifies some of the most awful and unhuman acts such as war and capital punishment.

 

some people are inherently evil. Ok you can call it psychopathic or give it a medical term but how is raping a 3 month old baby not evil.

Charles Manson is evil. No doubt about it. Bundy, The Ripper, The Yorkshire Ripper, Hyndley, Ian Huntley. You can never ever bring these people back into society (You'd have a real big job with Jack The Ripper being that he is almost certainly dead, no matter which version of the story you believe).

Saddam Hussein is evil. Slobodan Milosevic is evil. Gary Glitter is evil.

I believe some people are born evil and others just become that way.

I've read post upon post on here about how bad George Bush is but all you could label him as is a guy who maybe is handling a difficult job in perhaps not the best way. Its a subject split 50/50 between every American and most Brits. Half of us think Bush and Blair were right and the other half think they are warmongers.

All the major political parties in Britain supported Labour for sending the UK in. (Ok so they were misled about reasons) and the conservative party still support labour for their actions. The Liberal Democrats are part of this political correctness brigade which is why they'll never win power in the uk.

I think its probably close to being time to put the war subject to bed. The US and UK can't leave at this moment in time because it would cause more chaos so we may as well leave the soldiers to do their jobs.

I've got loads of things to protest against, the war isn't one of them

 

I know im gonna sound rather odd to most on here but why do people put Charles Manson up as evil then they support people in power destroying on a wider scale?

I agree that Manson was sick in the head but come on you can't really say he has done worse for humanity than the warmongers have.So the Manson family killed a couple people lets call it a murder case but what the fuck is the point in supporting a war that kills much more people then they ever did?

 

I believe every non mentally disabled person has the capacity to think beyond the idiotic philisophical standards of an 8 year old, but sadly it looks like the person who created this thread "became" stupid, just like some people "become" evil.

And I don't see how a society bent on war and lead by pragmatic sociopaths is going to produce anything other than evil people.

I swore If I came to this thread again I would not post a reply. To be honest, the attitudes of some conservatives today is truly heartbreaking, everytime I think back on this I get a little depressed. I saw a history teacher from 4 years ago on the bus today and we spoke about the Iraq war, his words were "Now that we who lived through the Vietnam War are old, there is now a new generation of idiots ready to swallow whatever governments are telling them".

As long as we think war is the answer, there will NEVER be peace

 

Yes and many great ideals fail in practice. I'm not starting on you. I should have clarified and said I think universal peace is a fallacy. I was only agreeing with Gary's first statement/question. To me, 'World Peace' is something only the pageant/beauty queen wannabees are stupid enough to regurgitate.

I don't believe in war but absolute power will always corrupt absolutely...and I believe that is the unfortunate human condition that will always deny peaceful existence.

 

You don't have to look at the idea of peace in such a large spectrum...to me, it is more important to spread peace and joy in our daily lives than to be concerned with wars we can't really prevent. If you can make one person feel happy and a peace, you could change their life. Say you spread a little love to a stranger....that stranger culd have been thinking about shooting their ex-wifes cat or something....but because you put them at peace they don't want to anymore. Think about it.

 

Yeah you are right on. I agree totally with what you said...I tend to think broad spectrum a lot. I try to live my life the way you do.

 

Be the change you wish to see in the world....right?

 

Ok, let me start by saying i'm an anarchist, therefore I am highly against "absolute power". I never ever said either that I believe there can ever be a truly peaceful existence. I just believe humans are more capable of living peaceful lives than people like gary actually let on. I am a pacifist and I actually care about other members of the human race to the point that If I had the choice I would never enter into a war in which thousands of deaths could result without knowing that myself or the poeple around me were absolutely under threat.

Yes we may be under threat, but (against popular belief) the fact is that the very terrorists that threaten us were hardly located in Iraq but in Afghanistan (which was almost abandoned before the war was actually won, giving power back to the terrorist harbouring Taliban) and other locations around the world in which police and intelligence organisations are RIGHTLY hunting out, but not at the expense of civilians and troops.

Getting back to the point, I wouldn't make the decision to go to war for the purpose of money or power but simply for my absolute defence, as a LAST resort. I don't think its unreasonable to expect the same of the people around me or the leaders of my nation.

I apologise if I'm a little aggressive, because I like the way you guys handled this argument, but I have been very depressed lately, I don't actually understand how people can actually think like some of the people on here! We're not fighting for peace! WE ARE NOT FIGHTING FOR PEACE! Or our FREEDOM!, I'm trying not to cry right now, I cannot handle this fucked up idea that the worlds most powerful nations have to completely topple another third world nation for FREEDOM?? WHAT FUCKING FREEDOM, I completely oppposed the IRAQ war, but we had no referendum, and now my tax dollars are going towards killing, and I am a pacifist.

Ok, so the general jist of what you guys were saying is "be the change you wish to see in the world", I totally agree with you, but in doing this, shouldn't we expect more of our so called civilised nations?

Truth is, even though I'm an anarchist, i have the tendency to be patriotic and a nationalist - for my whole life I have loved Australia, I love our land and our freedom and I always thought of us as a Country that cares about peace and freedom - Now imagine you've just finished high school and you find out your country is going to help invade another country, that is blow up buildings, kill children, kill people, KILL KILL KILL without any recent provocation, and against the decision of the United Nations - and what is there to stop the most powerful country in the world if not the United Nations?? Ok, and consider the fact that I had done history papers on the Vietnam War, as well as World War II, read "All Quiet on the Western Front", "Empire of the Sun", "The long green shore" "The thin read line", and other books - and by the end of the whole fucking last year of high school all I could think about was how much I hated war and the way it destroyed the lives of the poor but gave power to the rich! So then I took the time to walk the streets of my city with millions of other people in the country at the same time on a national protest day, we're talking normal, everyday type people, not just crazy hippies, and my prime minister, the next day, on national television actually said these words:

"I'm not going to be swayed by the Mob"

How can you call millions of educated and caring people, conservatives and liberals alike, from all walks of life, a mob?

So we as a mobsters had to accept that 2 + 2 = 5 and that our country was going off to kill people no matter what we thought. Then we had to watch for the years that followed as we saw countless images of destruction and ever increasing evidence that our leaders lied to us (or at least fucked up with great incompetency) about Iraq.

Then comes the most disturbing part - People still believe the shit that is being shovelled down their throats about the war being a war for freedom...and I have to sit here and wretch while my eyes water because someone actually has the ignorance to say that not only war, but this fucking awful shitty vietnam II war, is for peace and freedom

Well if thats peace and freedom then,

fuck peace and fuck freedom

 

Then that deranged person clings to you and when you and him/her fall out they end up shooting your cat.

That was a joke by the way. I agree with your sentiments on that one.

I don't like being called a conservative by the way. I'm much further right than that.

 

When you elect a government into power you are electing them to run the country. They do not have to have a referendum on any particular topic unless they pledge to do so when they are elected in which case they are morally obliged (not legally) to hold a referendum.

Therefore to stop your tax dollars from going towards killing you have 2 choices which are

1. Vote for a party/candidate that is against war
2. Run for election yourself

It may not change anything but at least you can say you tried. The third option is to protest on a grander scale. Its ok to vent your frustrations on boards like this but noone in power is even looking.

You need to get large groups of people to protest with you, get people with clout to join your cause (that includes celebrities, why I don't know). Look at what Sir Bob Geldof has achieved.

 

You are forgetting that several countries, including Canada, held referendums because they believed it was the right and democratic thing to do, and in those countries the overwhelming number of people voted against going to war.

I'm sorry to continually insult you gary, but I have to also point out the power of governments to fool people into following their causes by manipulating the mass media, which ultimately defeats democracy, making the opinions of the masses (which are no longer based on fact) almost invalid.

Thats what we did, millions of Australians, and we continue to protest all the time and it has yet achieved very little, nor has it persuaded people like yourself of the folly of this war.

Yes Bob Geldof has achieved a lot but World Poverty is a much easier problem to master than war.

Anyway, thanks for not tearing my highly emotional and heartfelt post to shreds. I really feel strongly about this one.

 

Tried that, the idiots still voted for John

Who would vote for a hapless idealist with scruffy hair and bare feet who actually cares about human beings? If I get a degree in economics, buy a suit and start acting like a lying sociopath with little regard poverty, education or the environment and focus on defence against invisible threats, tax cuts for the rich and middle class and laws against Gay marriage then I suppose i'm in with a chance.

 

OK gotta respond here. I do #1 and have vote Nader for the past decade. I know Ralphy boy ain't gettin in (as it is a system that won't ever let that happen) but I'm still gonna give him my vote as long as he runs. Now Nader himself does #2, as he is a full-time citizen and he believes that is his job. But all the activism in the world won't change the big issues.

How can you think of him as anything other than Pink? Friggin 'sir'. I mean seriously...

It was with much sadness that I took the news of Howards election as it forshadowed DubyaDick. Had Latham Toolbox won it would have at least shaken up the Bush camp.

I am fully aware my country is full of illiterates who, like their ancestors using the bible to enforce slavery, voted GW Bush on the sole reason that he is pro-life. These are the same people who justify the war by saying that 'Sadam is a bad man' at the expense of 30,000+ Iraqis and 2,000+ soldiers.

oh wait, I forgot about the weapons of mass destruction.

 

He he, that was sarcasm wasn't it?

 

I don't doubt that half the world has chosen to be evil. I don't believe in inherent evil, only bad karma or bad choices. For one, I believe Bush to be making bad choices, but that's not saying that I find Sadam faultless.

 

I agree.

About bush making bad choices,: he is a man who has a fair amount of input into decisions that shape the lives of billions of people on the planet. World leaders like him have the ability to spread evil greater than anyone, especially a small timer like charles manson. Therefore deceiving the public and going to war with a country unprovoked and therefore killing thousands of people will inevitably spread evil and will do little to promote peace. Its an evil war and the laws of karma say that evil begets evil.

 

Absolutely true. Bush's decisions have put the whole world at risk. Attacking Iraq under the false pretext of WMD's was just a way to get hold of Iraq's oil wells. I don't believe that Americans can be secure if their President is out killing thousands of innocent people. As you said, yes, evil begets evil and we can see it before our eyes. The countries which supported Bush in his so-called "war against terror" have all been targeted by the terrorists. The Madrid blasts, the Bali bombings (where most victims were Australians) and the most recent, London attacks, all prove that by fighting this evil war, Bush has put the lives of millions of people on stake, including those of Americans.