"The troops are fighting for your freedoms and without them you won't have any"

The troops WOULD fight for our freedom but thats not what they're fighting for right now.

 

Hands down my favourite post for 2006

 

The Revolutionary Americans fought for MY freedom.

All the other wars against foreign countries were fought for something else.

 

Damn!........being a Brit,I was rootin' for the other side!!!.

 

none of you are free

 

what a coincidence, i was thinking up ideas for bumper stickers this morning and that one came up.

 

To all of those who maintain that we are not free,
I would like a specific example of what you feel that you personaly should be free to do, but cannnot because of the government.

Let me reply to my own question with "smoke weed."

 

For one we aren't really given a lot of choice to where our tax dollars go. I hate the idea that my money is indirectly contributing to making bombs when I am a pacifist. And yeah, we can't smoke weed. In Australia now there are laws limiting our free speech in order to prevent sedition, so there is a limit to which we can actually argue with the government, some democracy. We're forced to go to school for 10 years and learn within a majority selected curriculum. At any moment, the government can force us off our land to make way for public structures like airports. Uh, then theres the idea that everyone in capatalism has an opportunity to get rich which is completely false, if we were all rich, who would make our clothes, pump the gas, stock the groceries..work in a depressing fucking production line - unless your smart you'll always be stuck at the bottom. I can go on and on and on and on

But the good news is there are ways to walk away. It should just be easier

 

I think this question itself, of whether we're free or not, is an altogether unclear one as it's been stated thus far.

It's the kind of thing which really and truly needs defining for the sake of clarity, for the sake of ppl knowing what in the hell they're talking about with one another...

Some here may feel they're talking about freedom as it pertains to rights and laws and such, others are more fixated on the fundamental fullness of the term, freedom.

Who knows?

 

agreed, I just went off on a tangent because i felt like it, but the bottom line for me is the troops are fighting for something other than our freedoms.

Peace everyone.

 

I'm with you there, for sure.

 

Lying in a field,
The inserted restatements are to see if I understand what you are saying:

(restatement) Your government (sometimes) does things that you disagree with, yet you are still subject to its taxes.

(restatement) And its laws, even the silly ones.

(comment) I didn't know that Australia had its version of the Alien & Sedition Acts. The US versions expired in 1801.

(comment) Forcing education on children limits your freedom?

(restatement) Similar to the tax issue, you are subject to government actions even when you disagree with them.

(comment) I don't see how the existance of false mythologies restricts your freedom. Especially when you don't believe those myths.

I hope that my restatments were accurate.

I find your last two sentances most interesting.

"There are ways to walk away" - I cannot walk to Australia. If I want to go to Australia, I have to deal with the ocean. I try to treat laws like I treat the ocean.
I am free to do what I please.
I can smoke pot.
I can walk towards Australia.
But went I encounter either cops or the ocean, I need to take them into account. Yes, this is inspired by the Rational Anarchism expressed in Heinlien's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Many of your complaints are a result of being part of a community. A community can do things that an individual can not. The same laws that are used to build airports were used to make the roads you use. (I hope you like at least some of those roads.)
How does the community make its decisions? Most governments are based on decision making by the majority. The price of having input to decision making is the requirement of supporting those desicions even when you are in the minority. Consensus is an alternative to majority rule desision making. Which could lead to a whole discussion of the theory of government, which is far off topic.

"It should just be easier" This, I think, is the core complaint of many who bemoan their lack of freedom. I think that many people (not you and not naming any others) mistake a world that does not do what they want, with a lack of freedom. I think this is a misuse of the word "freedom."

BUT, BACK ON TOPIC.
I believe that the soldiers in Iraq are fighting for different reasons than those who sent them to Iraq. While greed and power motivated those who sent the army to Iraq, young soldiers will not risk their lives for such worldly reasons. Patriotism and protecting freedom are reasons that the troops fight. The people who decide to start wars are not the people who fight in them.
The reasons that a war is started are different from the reasons they are fought.

"The troops are fighting for your freedoms" - TRUE.
"& without them you won't have any." - FALSE. As stated above, my freedom does not depend on others. Other people determine the field in which I make my free choices.

 

Dear me... America defends, liberates and re-builds countries better than the rest of the world huh? My god... where was America before Pearl Harbour, when Poland and more countries were invaded, 1939? What the hell gave America the right to be in Vietnam? Russia got rid of all their nuclear weapons... did the US do the same? Liberate Kuwait? "Iraqi people, rise up against Sadaam, the USA will follow" not the US's fault they got slaughtered right? George Bush and his dad should be force fed oil... this is your fucking freedom. The USA has more WMD than any other country in the world... yet they invade Iraq on the issue of them having even a small amount. Arrogance, hypocrisy... open your eyes.

 

Uh, should i be saying thanks, i don't really know. Truth is I was talking in pretty broad generalisations and i wasn't inviting a complete breakdown of my argument. I guess what i mean when i say we can walk away is that we are not entirely captive, there are always ways to get underneath society and find our own ways to do things, i'm not really sure. When I say it should be easier is that governments should be recognising the value of i guess "self governmental creativity", be imaginative if you want to know what that means. I guess what I mean is that the world is falling to shit and people should have more freedom to find alternative ways of living.

As for the idea of community - living under the same legislation as 18,000,000 other human beings seems more akeen to living in an overgrown slavish machine complete with gears and cogs. I'm not actually looking for an argument, particularly with borish intellectuals (i am saying this not in attack but in full honesty) but if you want to talk about these particular issues go to the Anarchism forum.

 

swear in school. i can say the same meaning in a different word form and not get in trouble.

 

one thing they tried to teach me in school in the united states was to conform to americanization ........i didn't there and i didn't in canada either ........they can never imprison my mind ........THAT IS FREEDOM

 

I think that, that fact was true during WWII, when we had a real threat to our freedom with Adolf Hitler, but since then we have had no such dangers.

 

how can ppl fight for peace? peace is whn there is no war. and since fighting is war, how can this be?

 

because bush is taking over the whole world and hes already gripped quite a lot.

 

Freedom is a state of mind, peace is a state of being.. just dont let all the bullshit into your mind or being and they can never win right? i mean ive always thought the only way to bring peace is to live peace. with an open mind and open ears and a big mouth?