lol, so why should either of those workers make more or less than the other? Bad example bro, not even really 'communism' per se. Until you realize that money is an illusion that provokes way too much bad than good, you will not understand where communism is coming from. I think most people don't anyways; I don't "support" communism really because at the current state of evolution it is impossible for people to live in the way necessary for real communism to work in real life. So it'd be pointless for me to spend my time supporting a utopian dream that will never materialize.
I am waaay too tired to read everything in this thread. Its a long thread. All these politics threads are long. I'm suprised so many people have such extreme biases agianst communism. Communism could work (I have some suggestions for it though). Communists need to establish an agreed upon... whats it called... theory I guess. Its kind of ambiguous. www.marxist.com is pretty good. Nothing in human society works without it being accomplished democratically. People can not be suppressed, and all supressed people are only suppresed because they let it be that way. Seriously, if somebody was a dictator I would shoot them with a sniper rifle. Most Americans I think don't know what communism is. Most communists are atheists and guys you should hear the thing I thought of today. I'll make a thread about it I guess.
ummm. WHY do you think?? because i work at nights right now and have had to work christmas eve and new years eve and thanksgiving day... while the guy who works 9-5 mon-fri gets to spend all his holidays with his family. THATS why the person who works nights and let's say from midnight to 8am should make more... so how wouldyou make that work in your precious communism? you obviously have no clue about the practical side of things.
LMFAO, wahhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, pay me pay me, for every little thing, quick I need more money. You do realize that the 'holidays' are just another way for big businesses to make money? Thanksgiving, great celebration of the total destruction of a people and their culture. Or are you really that concerned with spending jesus' birthday with your family? What's so different about that day and any other day being spent with your family? O that's right the commercialism must bring your family to mind, right? Night-time jobs are NOT FOR THE FAMILY MAN!!! My family (uncles) have ALL worked night shifts for years buddy, and don't tell me about practical cause many times they were too tired to make it to christmas from the night before. Owell, just another day, maybe we'll see them at the next family dinner, whatever. And dude, do you read anything I post? I said I don't support communism.
Millions of people are concerned with spending the holidays with their family. Thats what the communist supporters on this site dont understand. They talk in vague terms about all being equal and everyone making just as much money as the next guy, when we all know that in the real world that shit doesnt work. It doesnt work b/c people can't make it work, no matter how we tried. Maybe a small commune could work, but even thats doubtful. But whether you or I give a crap about Christmas is one thing---MOST people do. So, then how are you going to tell a person to work Christmas Day and New Years Eve and pull a 6pm to 2am shift and get paid the exact same amount of money as the dude who works 9am to 5pm that day and gets to spend that day with his family? I think the communists on this site (not you, obviously) need to step back for a sec and shut up and instead of complaining about the evils of capitalism try to come with ways to make capitalism work better. God knows it's not a perfect system, but its the best system we have. After all, it's because of evil capitalism that all you people have that nifty little laptop that cost less than 1,000 bucks or that cool iPod that holds 7,000 freaking songs and cost just a little bit more than a CD walkman did 10 years ago!
One more thing: If everyone is equal in a communist society, then: 1) Who the hell would pick up the garbage, be a janitor, clean toilets, deliver newspapers at 4am? 2) Who'd wanna be a brain surgeon and deal with that stress when you could be a lifeguard and get paid the exact same money? 3) Who would wanna be a cop and work the midnight to 8am shift sunday to thursday, when the guy who works 9am to 5pm mon-fri gets the same exact amount of money (and sneaks home a little earlier on fridays)? 4) How would tourist destinations thrive, lets say in the caribbean, since we're all just as rich (or just as poor)? would the people living in the caribbean also share in the glory of the communist society? where would that money come from? 5) who'd wanna put their life at risk and test airplanes or fly to the moon, when one can get paid just as much BEING A LIFEGUARD!!!?!?!? these are all practical questions. they need practical answers. and communism can't provide them, sorry.
FWIU, it is not necessary for everybody to be paid the same amount of money, I think the main idea is the dissolution of the ruling class. BUT I have heard many different explanations of what communism is, so maybe a poli sci major could answer your questions thoroughly. IMO People are too concerned about riches, about money. Blinded by greed. Money is an illusion... if people could work together (WHAT A PIPE DREAM, TRUST ME I KNOW) there would def. be a way to construct a communist like society that would actually work. BUT this ain't gonna happen in the near future.
lol calm down a little MM, I would hope that the people who try to talk about the plusses of communism don't believe in the fascist regimes that called themselves communist as actually communist. Otherwise, then yes, they should be shot lol...
MidnightMoonlight “Why you piece of shits are even allowed in this website, is beyond my comprehension, YOU SHOULD BE BANNED, if your a worthless piece of shit communist!” If you hate communists so much why come to a forum called Communism, your actions could be very much seen as flaming. Want to discuss communism fine, want to just shout abuse leave or you may find yourself been banned. This is a warning.
Its a question of relative wealth vs. absolute wealth. Sure, capitalism creates huge gaps in income, but everyone still better off overall than they would be under a communist system (where less "wealth" would be created overall). Assuming "consumption" is a good index to measure life-quality. But hey, under capitalism, you have the freedom to work as much or as little as you need (depending on how much "consumption" your lifestyle requires). The best system is a capitalist one - it drives technology, trade, production, etc, all the material possessions need to enjoy a modern life. On the other hand, humans have certain innate rights - food, healthcare, education, etc. Therefore, the best system would try to be as productive as possible while at the same time ensuring all of its citizen's most basic rights. Which is pretty much what happens now in most Northern (North-South Gap) countries. Its called social democracy. Now we're just arguing on where to draw th eline.
You are just looking at the rich capitalist nations, it is impossible for even half the world to have the American excessive way of life. Before the Russian revolution Russia was a backwards shithole, afterwords it had the fastest industrial growth in history and the average quality of life from the 50's on was far higher then before the revolution. When soviet economy crashed its economic setup made a much softer landing then the great depression, under capitalism people would be kicked out of their homes when they no longer could pay the rent/taxes where the soviet goverment didn't evict a single soviet citizen for such reasons. In capitalism when markets crash many usally die due to famine where in the Soviet Union while it ment long lines unlike during the great depression the majority of soviet people were eventually able to get basic goods and on average still had more then before the revolution. Even the CIA had the quality of life in the Soviet Union as 1/2 that of the USA which isn't bad, Russia wouldn't have made it that high under capitalism and much lower now. The problem with the Soviet Union was a corrupt oppressive goverment which had nothing to do with its economic policies.
Thank You for pointing that out. If you look at capitalism, it just seems like "by the rich, for the rich." I am not a social scientist or anything like that, but that's just how it seems to me.
