stupid people with fur coats...

there isnt anything wrong with that... but i thought this thread was about killing animals for fur...thats the wrong thing!

 

is it only limited to furs? or the animals skins aswell? like leather ya know a dead cows skin.or some other type of animal that is thick skinned. or do you think a little chinchillas life if more valuable than a cow?

 

i guess i have to admit deat here . people who dont agree only read what they want out of a post and then make comments on just a line or so. cause just 2 or 3 post prior to this there is a lengthy post of mine then the next comment missed the entire point.

so shroom ill agree with pitt on this

 

well cows are already dead when they take the skin...they kill some animals just for the fur...

 

Wow, so much anger from such "loving" people. What gives you the right to hate me, or feel free to destroy my property, or even "fly at me in a fit of rage"? Isn't this a free country? Gringo, I think you are just trying to make people think before they speak, good for you. And as for you Elle, I'm sure you mean well, but such anger and hostility from all these people who are "animal lovers" is why so many people think that vegans and organizations like PETA are a joke. If you want to have the right to protest and inform people graphically of animals plight, you need to realise that other people need the right to wear fur.

I find it most interesting that most of the hostile anti-fur posters seem to be very young. I know lots of vegans, some of them I call friends but unfortunantly, there are too many spoiled little kids like YOU out there who have no idea or even a desire to try to understand other peoples point of veiw. You have shown nothing but disrespect for other peoples ideas.

Next time I see one of you damn vegans I may fly into a rage, after all those vegies have a right to live too. Give it up, you OWN your dogs, most zoo's are sanctuary's, cows would be extinct if I didn't eat them, and sheep would die in most climates if they are not sheared at least twice a year, and you are just as much a part of the problem as the rest of us, so get off your high horse and live your life your way and let me live mine my way.

 

no hostility here. im passionate about a subject and thats obvious. no i will not change my point of view and no you do not have the right to kill animals to wear their fur. its nothing to do with letting people have different opinons. men in iraq think its ok to rape women and beat their wifes....does that make it right just because its their opinion? of course not. the fact that you are so heartless when it comes to the other species of animals we share this earth with is sad at best.

and no, i dont expect everyone on earth to "get it". some never will. i have a feeling that you are one of them.

have a nice day!

 

I really really don't like fur... my grandpa gave me one awhile back.. I looked at him like are you serious... It's nice you paid all that money for it but.... no

 

Actually, I would never wear fur, it's really not necassary due to all of the man made materials these days. And I do care about animals, not Veg but I definantly limit my families intake of meat and try my best to keep it organic and free range. My comment was based on all of the hostility I heard on this thread, not directed at your personally. I am all for trying to educate the public, but no one likes something shoved down thier throat.

Actually I know a lot of different people who have very different veiws from me. I wouldn't think it was Ok for my man to hit me, but some of these women think it is based on thier religon and values. I have no right to try to change that, everything is about perspective. I can't stand the thought of buying new clothes knowing they were mostly made by what amounts to slave labor, I shop at thrift stores or make my own. But that doesn't give me the right to spray paint on YOUR clothes.

 

i'd never ever condone being rude or aggressive when trying to educate someone...and sometimes i know that when people are extremely passionate and caring about a subject (most vegans are with animal rights) we can get carried away in emotions and loose sight of the objective.

i do realise that some women (in iraq lets say) think its ok, like their husbands do, for them to be beat on by their men or what have you.......i'd say most women wouldnt be happy in that situation but its their RIGHT to allow it if they so choose as its their life. but animals dont have that luxury of choosing to be eaten or choosing to be killed for fur. infact, most women in iraq are probably (im assuming here) unahppy with their situation but are not in a position to do anything about it or feel that they cant......animals are in the same situation....unable to change the circumstance surrounding them. now if animals could speak our language and volunteered themselves as dinner than obviously that would be their choice....but i have a feeling that most would not....and since they cannot anyway, killing them is murder. thats all i was meaning about the iraq thing.

 

i know i said i was done here but i cant help myself.

"unable to change the circumstance surrounding them. now if animals could speak our language and volunteered themselves as dinner than obviously that would be their choice...."

you still do not understand my point. us/we humans are animals also. why is it wrong for us to use them for food when in the wild animals eat other animals?
we are part of nature just as other animals are. so why is it wrong for us to do it but not for other species to do the same?

and why is it another persons place to tell me i am wrong or stupid for doing whats natural?

i live on a commune in puerto Rico and we have sheep here and wild cotton. we sheer the sheep twice a year and blend it with cotton . why is that wrong to do? in other posts you told me sheering sheep was wrong, id just like to know why? and if you tell me the sheep should be out in the wild ontop of some mountian id like to know why that is also? so some wolf can kill it and rip it to pieces alive? when here we feed and care for them for no other reason than to sheer the wool off them.

and also as you may have guessed being on a sub tropical island nobody here even owns a fur coat or anything but we do have leather shoes and other various tools and such. and i buy raw cow hides from the slaughter houses here to make other items like the harnesses for pulling wagons and other equipment.

and we use two horses here as slaves also. we ride them to stores use them to pull wagons and take the kids to school, going out and collecting hay and grasses and such. but in doing so we are not using cars and fossil fules. therby helping nature.

why not protest baseball games for using horse hide on baseballs? or football games for pig skin footballs? why just pic on people who were furs or eat animals?

i could see having a problem with baseballs and footballs and other such items but clothing and food is natural. just playing a game is kinda selfish i think. but then how are any of us to know what other parts of the horses or pigs are used as well? if the rest of the animal is used then using the hides(the byproduct) isnt wrong at all.

its all how you look at things.

 

well i am done here....i am not interested in debating this issue with you.

however you keep saying that animals in the wild do it so why cant we......

well, animals in the wild also have been known to eat their young....and chimps have been documented murdering other chimps for no apparhent reason....so is it cool if you do those things to?

there is lots of suffering in the world where animals are concerened...when a lion pounces on a gazelle and eats it alive that animal suffers....and yes thats a natural occurance. but why cause suffering to animals when it is not nessecary? afterall we are supposed to be an advanced species, are we not? i keep hearing how we are so superior..........(i dont know if you said that but ive heard it alot here)
we can choose to live our lives by trying to cause the LEAST amount of suffering possible.

animals in the wild that eat other animals do so to survive...without that meat they would die and the species would perish. most of us can do without meat its just that most people LIKE it, think it tastes good and they would rather eat it for that reason than find an alternative. of course some people have to hunt animals and such to survive as well....survival is first and foremost for everyone.....

of course it not convienent to do without leather or wool or other things but i'd rather take the inconvience than cause suffering where there doesnt need to be suffering.

most wool comes from the *wool industry* where sheep are treated cruely. infact sheep now HAVE to be sheered otherwise their wool would overtake them since they were bred by us humans to overproduce wool. if you are interested in knowing about the woool indusrty theres lots of info online.

not all animals are carnivores or omnivores...there are some that are herbivores as well....so you are assuming that the human species is a naturaly an carnivorous species....and i last time i checked my teeth werent capaple of tearing apart raw meat.......and since i can actually survive and be healthy without the intake of meat i dont nessecarily believe that its "natrual".

i mean, is it okay if some guy bigger than you came and killed you because he thought your skin would make a good leather couch? or for men to sell children into sex slavery because it is a profitable business? no of course not, so why is it ok to do it to them? i mean you keep telling me to give you reasons why you dont have the right to use them to your liking...well give me some reasons why you DO have the right to do it.

 

I wouldn't wear fur because I think it's kinda tacky, but let me tell you a story.
I live on an Indian Reserve in canada, and for many many years my dad and his dad would go out Muskrat hunting, which is a really, really cold and grueling job, but it's what they knew how to do. They would get as many muskrats as they could in a day and they would skin them and cut out the meat and everything. We would eat the meat, and give some away, and sell the fur to a guy who came from somewhere in the states. As years went on, my dad developed his own construction business, and my mom went back to school and got a job, and we didn't have to rely on my dad going out into the swamp to hunt muskrats.
I just want to say that if it weren't for those tacky old women buying those fur coats, we wouldn't have any money during the winter months because back in those days no one around here would hire an Indian to do any kind of work (which is a WHOLE other topic). SOoOOOoo, In conclusion, I just want to say that I don't agree with fur farms that treat animals poorly, but you don't know exactly where that fur came from. Maybe it did come from a muskrat killed by a poor Native man in Ontario.
The End

 

or maybe it came from china where dogs and cats are killed and sold to the states for fur coats. now THAT has freaked some people out when i told them......ironic.

 

"i mean, is it okay if some guy bigger than you came and killed you because he thought your skin would make a good leather couch? or for men to sell children into sex slavery because it is a profitable business? no of course not, so why is it ok to do it to them? "

ill tell you why cause as the dominate species on this planet we have laws and rules to live by. and you stated above about eating the young, every country has their own laws and what they consider a moral standard you wanna eat your young go ahead just move to china where they already do eat aborted babies, the entire problem is you think of lesser animal species as equals when it suits your goal. that is unless they are not cute enough to meet your standards.
and the dog or cat furs comming from china, so what over there they eat them and if they didnt find a use for the hides it would just go to waste. so whats the big deal.

dont like it find fellow supportes and put a stop to it if you can. but just telling the majoritity of the world they are wrong or stupid because you dont agree isnt really fare.

sure this thread started off about furs but its a deeper problem here really.
you dont respect freedom, you want your opinion to be the only opinion and all others are stupid.

id never call you stupid for not agreeing with me, but many people would, and as you have stated before we all already know you dont care who thinks your stupid. but its just not right to expect others to treat you and your beliefs with respect when you refuse to do the same in return.

 

first of all...i NEVER used the word "stupid" at all in referring to you or anyone else here.


secondly.....its not about not respecting your opinions. i could care less what your opinons are but there is a moral responsibility to LIVE AND LET LIVE. period. you wanna do drugs and fuck yourself up? fine, go ahead its your body. you wanna let your husband or wife beat the tar out of you? fine it your life. but preventing other beings to live a peaceful and happy life doing what they evolved to do is wrong. how can i possibly respect that? i never will. i dont care if my human capabilities makes me "dominent".......all you are saying with that is might makes right basically. is a grown adult man with a degree from harvard dominent over a poor child from africa because he is bigger or smarter or more capable? or do we only respect the members of OUR species? i mean so thats what gives you the right to use and exploit animals? because you see yourself as "dominent"? is that the reason you use to justify what you do?

and its quite ironic how you tell me that I dont respect freedom? hahaha......well apharently you dont have any respect for the freedom of other species b/c you seem to think that you are "dominent" or whatever. it seems more like arrogence on the part of the human race to me.

and i consider every animal species as equal (equal in that we all deserve to live peacefully and happily and naturally)..whether cute or not cute. "cute" is subjective anyway and has nothing to do with anything. i try to treat incescts witht the same respect i'd treat my dog and i dont find bugs cute....infact they kind of freak me out a little. with that said..this "goal" of mine doesnt suit ME. not at all. its terribly inconvient to live a vegan lifestyle and sometimes i find it exausting. but its not about me....its not about my opinions...its all about the animals and being their voice since they lack the ability to change the circumstances created by humans.

whether something is cultural or not has nothing to do with that fact that noone has a right to stop a living and thinking and feeling being from living peacefully if it can be avoided. and for many of us, it can be.

i mean, if you really dont give a shit about how animals are used and exploited and it suits you to be careless like that then just say so.....id respect the honesty a little more than some lame excuse like "we are dominent therefore that gives us a right".


as a final say.......and ive said this before......i dont want continue in this debate because it a serious waste of time on the forums. i dont care about trying to win an arguement or proving my case and i stand firm in my beliefs and ethics. and i dont expect that you will ever agree with anything im saying so..............why keep this going?

 

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I beg to differ

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So this must be an argument? Apparently it is not education, opinion's aren't education.

Love, Papabear