paganism in sufism

i just wrote a long e-mail to a soefi organisation type of thing (i dunno the word in english) that has meetings, meditations and such.
i asked them if i could come to one of their meetings because i want to learn more about this.

 

lisa dont have ONE bad intention in her Being. i'll testify to that***

 

I didn't say she did.

I'm saying that I understand the Islamic position that wait up hold it wait a second, the Koran doesn't say to do this, in fact it says NOT to look elsewhere for inspiration.... so STOP CALLING YOURSELF ISLAM!!!

 

she said she was mistaken***
and her intent and true interest rested nowhere in making the comparison to islam. she learned a little something today, but yeah, her intent is still in the same place.
she's interested in sufism**

and goodness knows you didn't think she had any bad intent, but things did get funkity, and i was just testifying to lisa's True True innocence and one-in-a-million Love. that's all man =)

if one person respects your opinions on islam, and islam in general, it's lisa =)

 

No, LLL is fine by me.

I was just commenting on cadqiiiziaq or whatever his name is' small rant against Sufiism.

If her heart leads her there and it's what she really believes more power to her.

 

Who? me? I never did

 

why thank you =)

and you too ethan.

 

No, no not you.

Look, here's the gist of what I mean.

(Police station: a police sergeant is talking ova the counter to a girl dressed in a short frilly tennis dress. She holds a racquet and tennis balls.)

Sergeant: A blancmange, eh?

Girl: Yes, that's fight. I was just having a game of doubles with Sandra and Jocasta, Alec and David...

Sergeant: Hang on!

Girl: What?

Sergeant: There's five.

Girl: What?

Sergeant: Five people . . . how do you play doubles with five people?

Girl: Ah, well ... we were...

Sergeant: Sounds a bit funny if you ask me ... playing doubles with five people...

Girl: Well we often play like that... Jocasta plays on the side receiving service...

Sergeant: Oh yes?

Girl: Yes. It helps to speed the game up and make it a lot faster, and it means Jocasta isn't left out.

Sergeant: Look, are you asking me to believe that the five of you was playing doubles, when on the very next court there was a blancmange playing by itself?.

Girl: That's right, yes.

Sergeant: Well answer me this then - why didn't Jocasta play the blancmange at singles, while you and Sandra and Alec and David had a proper game of doubles with four people?

Girl: Because Jocasta always plays with us. She's a friend of ours.

Sergeant: Call that friendship? Messing up a perfectly good game of doubles?

Girl: It's not messing it up, officer, we like to play with five.

Sergeant: Look it's your affair if you want to play with five people ... but don't go calling it doubles. Look at Wimbledon, fight? If Fred Stolle and Tony Roche played Charlie Pasarell and Cliff Drysdale and Peaches Bartcowitz... they wouldn't go calling it doubles.

Girl: But what about the blancmange?

Sergeant: That could play Ann Haydon-Jones and her husband Pip.

 

=D

 

Well said.

I've only read a bit about the sufis. One theory is that they're what the essene/nazzerrene sect evolved into after the fall of Judea.

An aspect of their practice that I think is pretty cool is that while most wanderring monks of most other faiths get by by begging of preaching the wanderring sufis make their living as street performers--particularly as clowns.

In that respect you could say sufiism is the wests answer to Zen Buddhism.

These guys are mystics masquarading as clowns which is a nice change from most religions where it's usually the other way around.

 

HAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i like that =)

hey naykidape, where's your signature quote from?

 

(HeeHee) It kind of makes sense when you think about it; who's take on current events makes more sense? Bill Mayher's or Pat Robertsons?

That's from a song that spilled out of my guitar one day when i was thinking about a pagan lady I know.

 

it's nice =)

 

Thanks.

 

Yes I understand you and I hope I didnt slight you ^^ , all I did was tried to explain why some people see paganism in it.

You are correct when you say that their are some sufis and not all who do this, some people who call them self sufis say so because they are ascetic people who live simply and try to have clean hearts, these feautures are definiatly found in Islam - but without contradicting the muslim belief about Allah, i.e He can not be compared to anything, He is outside his Creation, He is one and claiming that Allah is inside you is disbelief in Islam. -

A second note, though this doesnt necessarily mean disbelief, in Islam we are totally forbidden to innovate religious matters like christians do. Worship is like Allah and his prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) described it, period. Those muslims who say otherwise, wether they call them sufis or shias or what ever, go against the general meaning of this verse:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." {Quran 5.3}

When this verse was revealed (just a few months before the passing away of our beloved prophet) Umar, the famous companion and caliph, started crying and the prophet asked him why he was crying and he answered: "What made me cry is that our religion is being perfected for us. Now it is perfect, nothing is perfect, but it is bound to deteriorate."

So to put it in simple terms, the prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said in an authentic report : "Whoever innovates in this affair of ours (religion) that which is not from it, it is rejected." and thats enough

 

yeah i understand now!
thank you for explaining.
(and i must say that there is a big discussion here
about muslims who do innovate religious matters.)
i like your signature by the way.

 

Ther are certainly 'pagan' influences in Sufism. But - Sufism is not a unified thing. There is a great difference between Sufis from Morocco, Turkey and Northern India/Iran.

But to some extent all contain pre-Islamic elements.
In Morocco, it seems there is a survival in Sufism of pre-Islamic cults who worshipped the god pan. Checkout the master musicians of Joujouka. Also, as with other Sufis from other places, there is a tradition of 'trance dancing', often using hashish.
In Pakistani/Iranian Sufism are elements which seem to derive from Zoroastrianism. If this interests you, I recommend 'The Masters of Wisdom' by J.G.Bennet, if you can find a copy.

 

lovelighlisa, no problem but what do you mean by "and i must say that there is a big discussion hereabout muslims who do innovate religious matters"

 

when you said that muslims cant do that
i thought you reffered to what i said about alot of muslims here -in holland-
do look into sufism, and that there is a discussion going about if that is okay.

 

yes, i've been studying persian sufism,
i have a teacher, he 'made' the shu'em path.
sanador Abbaji (abbah frederic)

i'll go look for that book!
thanks!