with the koran it runs the oppersite way the nice bits came first when mohammed didnt have a army ,the nasty stuff like kill the pagans wherever you find him came later and are open ended . mohammed had a treaty with pagans and he broke it and its just left like that. also muslims believe the koran to be perfect ,there isnt a big bunch of them who believe that its not perfect or some might be mis-translated gotta go to get cat food will speak again
I assume that is so only those in power and can punish those that sin. Civil unrest and the prospect of a 'swinging from lamposts' mentality must have been a concern of jesus and those that 'interpreted' the bible.. It is the ultimate in political / social thinking as ever their will be written...however it is flawed .. because it was written by man. Why does it have the room for interpretation.. maybe because then ANYTHING can be justified. That is why it takes decades for the church to find a 'peace' within itself and the the bible and towards the ever changing society around it. The koran and it's followers will get over this stage..and the koran wil not be intepreted [so widespread] in the manner it is today.. just like the bible. Those in charge of it will change then everybody else will change imho.
AMSTERDAM - Al Qa'ida has activated and given orders to sleeping terrorist cells, to attack Holland and a series of other countries. The orders come from the recently imprisoned top terrorist Abu Musab al-Suri (Syrian), who was the brain behind the Madrid bombings. Al-Suri was arrested at the beginning of November in Pakistan. The call for the terror cells to become active has been spread by henchmen of the terrorist al Suri. The Al Qa'ida topman wants 'islamic fighters' in Europe to come into action. He wants them to quickly activate and attack Holland, Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany, and Denmark source http://dutchnewz.net
Well no, not really. Unless you mean god. The church of england can't even agree amongst its own ranks on what is and isn't sin, with much being left to individuals to decided. And that's before you even get started on the multiple christian denominations....
No.. i don't mean God.. because conveniantly he has not been heard from neither has his son.. for 2000 years. Plus at the time religous laws were in place.. i guess thats what jesus was trying to alter with his own set of laws. Why was the Church of England started ?.. So that the popes version of the bible could be smudged...Them having debates about what they allow is bordering on hypocritical... it is just the will of the men in charge, it has nothing to do with god.. 'he' has no say in it. It has everything to do with those in power within the church and goverment to interprete and galvanise the message. Though i guess that is slowly seperating [church and state]. The church has individuals as fallable as me and you. It obviously has people with varying personal beliefs and many do not not go along with the recieved truth of the bible... or how it is being interpreted by those in charge. The church is fighting to keep everything how it was rather than have its beliefs be dictated too...on the other hand having the forced humility to alter as not to become obsolete...and horribly out of touch. I guess that is why their is so much debate behind the scenes.. how can they seem to not pander to the public, and at the same time maintain the cohesion of the bible. The churches power is being lost... by civil law and the human rights of the individual with no religous intrusion. Homosexuality has always been around.. this had to be dealt with .. within the confines of the society at the time. It has only just been deemed socialy and legally acceptable..thanks to years and years of religouse pandering. I believe jesus gave room to those in power to be able to maintain their law but have his law as a basis. On this point his law deemed it 'not acceptable' [we just have to face that fact imho].. The church knows that xmas has bugger all to do with the actual birth of christ .. does not stop them from spouting it out every year though.. Or that the possibility is that Mary was a 12-13 year old child.. whatever the bible might say [though i don't believe it mentions any particular day/month/year] and it certaily does not mention mary being anything other than 'pure'.. So the many denominations and all the quarrels 'in the church' are just the same things you see in politics .. nothing more... It all has to fit in whith the general politics and sway of the people it is supposed to reflect and inform. You must accept it is just a bunch of rules and regulations created by man for man.. and is now partly outdated. we just cling to it for some reason. pardon me for rambling
Muslims that want citizenship in the German state of Baden-Württemberg will have to fill in a 30 question questionaire from 1st January 2006. In this way the government can check whether they conform to the liberal-demacratic rules, (Freiheitlich demokratische Grundordnung, FDGO), and that they recognise the Bondsrepubliek of Germany. Baden-Württemberg is the first German state to introduce these interviews of muslims. New Germans have since 2000 had to believe in the FDGO, and a number of ground laws outlining German customs, read more here
Terrorism is caused by individual peoples evilness. It has nothing to do with religon. Nowhere in the Koran does it say that killing innocent civilians can be justified. On the contrary the Koran instructs soldiers in time of war NOT to harm civlians, religous buildings, monks, or any other non combatants.
it does say in Koran to kill people 9.5 slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39 Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73 Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83 Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111 Don't pray for an idolater (not even from your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113 Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123 The case for civilians is mixed you have some haddith that say don’t kill kill women and children, this is partly because they were seen as a source of wealth (slaves) and someone you could rape . There are haddiths about not destroying places of worship priests ect of people of the book if they are in the position of dhimmis, that’s a sort of apartied where Christians and Jews pay protection money and live as second-class citizens . This wouldn’t apply to pagans people like Hindus, in Sunni Islam in three of the four main schools pagans were not allowed to live in Islamic majority states and their choice was fight covert or become slaves. The same would apply to people like me atheists, in fact I believe people like me who apart from my disbelief in god also fights Islam with words would be crucified. Also you have haddith where early Muslims did kill women and children specific enemies of Islam were killed, in some cases in very nasty ways a old poetess was pulled apart for example a pregnant women who spoke ill of Mohammed was stabbed. The justification for terrorist attacks on what we call civilians is that they wouldn’t be able to be taken as slaves, in the modern world women vote and sometimes fight therefore they can be seen as part of a enemy force and therefore a legitimate target . dok and matthew I don’t see Islam changing or reforming I hope your right and I’m wrong but don’t think you are
In small incriments with gradual change.. maybe like a petulant child 'growing up'.. Who knows.. just going on past history.. though the 'gay' issue taking more than 2000 years to half 'sort out'..fills me with dread , you might be right .
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/...id=62484&headline=hiv-bombers--name_page.html recruiting people with aids to do suicide bombing and something that a friend of mine brought up regarding islam , you had widespread discrimination against non muslims the dhimmi system and one of the things he noticed was there was no campaign against this inside islamic countrys . in the west you had human rights campaigns for say getting rid of slavery or anti segregation you dont see that in the islamic world so most of these humanitarian reforms came from outside the society . There is very little universial brotherhood in islam, well there is but to fellow muslims
Yasser Arafat was brought up in an islamic nation and won the nobel peace prize. I could go on, but i feel this argument is silly
Highly fundamental islamic groups in Yemen campagining for peace in the middle east,based on the teachings of the koran.
The bible is profoundly disturbing when taken out of context, just like the koran. By the way jonny 2 mad, how do you plan to rid the middle east of islam? Blow everyone to pieces, it seems they've tried that and it only makes them angrier.
No the Koran never tells people to commit war crimes. It in fact does the opposite telling people that in time of war non combatants are to be protected. The Old Testament which makes up three quarters of the Bible is also a history of the Jewish people. Who throughout acient history were involved in war both with foreigners and other Jewish tribes. There were originally 12 tribes of Israel only two of which survived. So its not surprising that the Old Testament contains so many excesses. If you look at the New Testament though you tend to find a much milder doctrine.
Stone circle, I don't understand exactly what you mean. I was trying to show that just like in the koran, there are passages that can be taken out the bible that are very violent and warlike and can be taken out of context to sound disturbing. I posted the verses in defence of Islam and as a counter-argument to jonny 2 mad's Koran bashing. Just making sure we're clear on that.
No the Koran never tells people to commit war crimes. It in fact does the opposite telling people that in time of war non combatants are to be protected. stonecircle did you read my post ? how would you define war crimes is making people into slaves and then raping those slaves a war crime I would say it was ,because thats in islamic scripture as the way you fight a war , so is torture, crucifixtion and genocide and some very nasty stuff . lying in a field I think what stonecircle is trying to say is the old testiment is seen as history which doesnt apply to christians so for example christians dont apply jewish diet laws ect ect , as they see that the old testiment takes precedence over the old testiment . it gets complicated in that there are some passages even in the new testiment that could be seen as violent . but generally the example of jesus is pretty non violent to the extent that hes stupid enough to forgive people while hes being cruicified . but the thing is with islamic scripture you have the example of mohammed, you have the last scriptures where you have a open ended command to fight and kill non believers . its much more differcult to see that islamic scripture is being misunderstood by people killing people . personally I do not want to carpet bomb the middle east if I did I wouldnt have gone to a lot of anti Iraq war marches , what I want to do is point out the reasons why mohammed was very unlikely to be a prophet and hope that people leave the religion .
