We all know there is a great plethora of myth and outright lies concerning this intriguing part of history. Some of the most liberal death tolls from this period suggest that 9 million people died at the hands of the Inquisition. More reputable sources seem to concur the figure cannot be more than 15,000. Obviously, 15,000 people dying is a tragedy in and of itself, and saying that 9 million people died is really not necessary to add tragedy to the situation. As we know how the ancestors tended to blow things out of porportion when it comes to the "evidence" of witchcraft and heresy (just look at the Salem witch trials), I was just wondering if anybody knows any reputable information regarding how many of the convicted witches might be actual witches/pagans? What was typical of the reasons for their conviction? Are there any good books on this subject, not mired in fantasy and bias?
Well you are defiantely right about this. The very way it is given as a Titled Era "The Burning Times' is already too much. At some points the whole idea became nothing short of a bizarre propaganda hoax by radical feminist types or those loving to see Christianity get taken down a notch etc. There was no 'Witch Holocaust' but like you said - hey, even one is too many. Of course we dont want to see anyone getting lynched but to put this in perspective its a lot like The Crusades or The Inquistion. Of course its 'Bad' and was 'really mean' but when compared to all kinds of crazy shit that went on in history - those are pretty small and relatively 'trivial' problems. You could be executed for ALL KINDS of reasons including stealing horses or just pissing off your local authorities bad enough. Being a Witch was just one of a whole list of crap offences they could get you on. The best evidence is pretty much indicating what I think everyone has known all along - getting on the wrong side of your neighbours was probably the real reason. Maybe just being a huge asshole all the time and surprise - your a witch or a heretic or whatnot and here comes the kindling. An article from a PRO Wiccan/Witchery site to check out: http://sacred-pathways.com/realburningtimes.html There is reference to several books there. I know there are a couple new projects coming out (if not already) on this. I just wish I could remember the actual names sorry.
Totally agree. I'm sure it's a coincidence, but that's a third more than were killed in the holocaust. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it does seem a case of 'more persecuted than thou' syndrome. There probably weren't even that many people around at the time, at least that you could take out without the whole civilisation collapsing. Why wiccans take it so goddam personally I've no idea, wicca didn't even exist at that time, so it's really not their fight. The whole thing just bugs the fuck out of me.
Sage, its just another reason to have the poor-me mean christian arguement. Most of the victims of the "burning times" were christian themselves, and more than that, most were probably Muslim. The persecution may have come more when Christianity was first introduced by the Romans. Things like the murder and rape of the priestesses of Mona at Roman hands piss me off more than a "burning time". Burning times or not, it wasnt my pagan ancestors being "burned" anyway, so it is no more personal than the Salem trials or the Holocaust. All tragic, yes, but not personal. Interesting facts from religioustolerence.org Overview: We are not going to win many friends in the Neopagan communities with the following essay. However, we believe it to be accurate. It is a story that needs to be told. The facts are that almost all of the information that is generally accepted as truth by the Neopagan community about the "burning times" is wrong: The total number of victims was probably between 50,000 and 100,000-- not 9 million as many believe. Although alleged witches were burned alive or hung over a five century interval -- from the 14th to the 18th century -- the vast majority were tried from 1550 to 1650. Some of the victims worshiped Pagan deities, and thus could be considered to be indirectly linked to today's Neopagans. However most apparently did not. Some of the victims were midwives and native healers; however most were not. Most of the victims were tried executed by local, community courts, not by the Church. A substantial minority of victims -- about 25% -- were male. Many countries in Europe largely escaped the burning times: Ireland executed only four "Witches;" Russia only ten. The craze affected mostly Switzerland, Germany and France. Eastern Orthodox countries had few Witch trials. "In parts of the Orthodox East, at least, witch hunts such as those experienced in other parts of Europe were unknown...."The Orthodox Church is strongly critical of sorcerers (among whom it includes palmists, fortune tellers and astrologers), but has not generally seen the remedy in accusations, trials and secular penalties, but rather in confession and repentance, and exorcism if necessary...." 1 Most of the deaths seem to have taken place in Western Europe in the times and areas where Protestant - Roman Catholic conflict -- and thus social turmoil -- was at its maximum.
Sage, its just another reason to have the poor-me mean christian arguement. Yeah that with the 'more persecuted than thou syndrome' is unbelievably annoying. No idea what their problem is. Maybe works on the same logic of why you can't break up with someone without then hating them for a while. Thanks for posting that article, knew some of that stuff but did lean some stuff too.
Hi white raven, I recently visited a castle in Austria, I can't remeber the exact details right now and my girlfriend is out shopping. Lots of "witches" where tried in the castle and from the information I could understand these people where tried mainly for "creating weather magic", for trading magical items and fortune telling. It was believe in Austria whenever there was a hail storm, a witch was to be blaimed. Also some of these people made bargains with the captors that if they where released they would name three witches. Obviously there is no proof that any of the people tried and executed where in fact witches. But the toll of people tried as witches in Austria runs into several thousands. I'll try and find some sites for you about the Austrian Trials.
Thanks a lot, that's what I basically needed to know. In a new piece I am writing, I want to have a main character be tried for being a witch---he actually is a practitioner of magic in the story. I just needed to know what some of the crimes he could be convicted of. The story is in Britain, but I'm sure the laws couldn't be that drastically different between the two places. It's surprising, even in North Carolina, any practice of divination was banned until a few years ago.
So that's why you wanted to know, how cool. As a fellow writer, and Brit, I shall try to be of help. For research you might want to check out museumofwitchcraft.com which is the website for a museum in Cornwall. I've been there myself and it's really interesting. Not sure how specific the info will be. Pretty sure the site has an email so you could contact them and try to find more out. They have an archive for artifacts/texts for those doing serious study. If your character did practise magic and was fairly open about it in his community, then he'd probably be known as a 'cunning man' (male version of a 'wise woman'). They would use magic and wisdom to help people in their village with day to day problems; curing illnesses, lifting curses, making charms, giving advice/divination etc. Sort of like a theraphist and doctor in one. In what period of history is your story set? Witchcraft in Britain made was illegal in 1735 (with the witchcraft act), though was definetly disaproved of before. If it's 17th century then try looking stuff up on Matthew Hopkins 'witch finder general'. The witchcraft act was repealed in 1951.
The book is set in the year 1532. I can't really say that it takes place in the average community. The premise is, this group of people ventured into the mountains and established a "commune," if you will, in the 12th century. The commune evolved so as to include a diverse population of travelers who had stumbled upon it over the years (and their descendents). Anyway, the commune is finally discovered/infiltrated and the "leader" is taken away to be tried for witchcraft. I would like to have this leader be kindof a teacher of the old ways to the commune/tribe. I don't want to brand him as having a certain religion, because he has been shielded from religion for so long in this isolated community (he is the descendent of one of the founders). But I would like him to communicate with nature spirits and evoke forces that would seem supernatural to the outside world. I also want him to practice herbalism and healing arts. I dunno, I'm still mainly in research, and most of my work is in planning and in my head right now. I have to sit down and just put all the info in front of me and sculpt it out a bit. One part I'm having a hard time with is making it conceivable that a community could remain so hidden from the rest of the world for so long. As you are familiar with British history and geography more so than I, do you have any suggestions on this detail? For example, would the Cumbrian mountains provide an adequate environment to establish the commune? Was this region fairly well-traversed in the 16th century? Thanks for your help.
Thanks for that link, it cleared up a few major questions I had. It looks as though I'll have to shift the time period of the book forward a few decades, as the first witchcraft trial in England was in 1565. That would have been a big detail to have missed.
Glad I could be of help. If you have any specific questions then feel free to ask (PM me or whatever). I'm part of an online community of writers which is there to help us get those details right (little details, it's on livejournal) and someone is bound to be able to answer. I'll post about the geography issues you mentioned in your last post and see what they come up with. Am not too familiar with Cumbria myself.
