So, in that regard, Santa is also Yahweh, El Shaddai, Bel, Belenous, Cernnunos, Dis Pather, Dagda, Donn, Lugh, Pan, Thor, Ba'el, and about another hundred fatherly, weather controlling,judgemental, and married death god there is? Basically, if my mom is a mother, your mom is a mother, they are both female, with (for sake of argument) curly blond hair, but live thousands of miles away, and both wear dresses, does that mean they are the same mother? no An as to the thread subject, she isnt pagan, didnt say she was gonna be, and only showed her interest in what to her would be a cool, and trendy alternative to her own now lifeless holiday.
I feel like I have started an argument here, sorry! If I was interested in being "trendy" I would just go along with the mindless consumerism that everyone else does. I am not a part of any particular religion. So, should I not celebrate ANYTHING?
No jessi. Celebrate the solstice, just not a specific holiday. The solstice belongs to the earth and all our Her children, regardless of their faith. The "argument" is over specifics, dont worry about it.
I certainly wasnt trying to derail any threads for holiday jollies! Celebrating any holiday is really the same for pagans as any other, its such a personal thing that there isnt a best way. Heron seemed to want to get all worked up over the Zeus thing. Specifics, yes, specifically, the archetypal symbol of the father and its relation to the seasonal myth. Argument, not so much, as I didnt see anyone but heron trying to debate the point, and even that degenerated quickly. Im sure there are alot of folks who arent pagan, that would be interested in looking at some of the old ways just the same. Being underground has taken paganism from the most accessible beliefs of the people to the least. When you get down to it, the ancestor worship aspect of teaching old ways to new people practically begs one to give suggestions to people, even if they arent the least bit spiritual OR pagan. Otherwise you are only preaching to the choir. Im not one to post on things I am only mildly curious or un-experienced in. I have had a fine background in working toward an open public acceptance to earth religions. Ive done group work in public and private, as well as solitary, and enjoy a musty old tome as much as the next guy. But books only take one so far, and are certainly not required to enjoy a little pagan revelry at the holidays. Since most of the advice was to read books til next year, it seemed like a good chance to make a suggestion or two. Still is, come to think of it. Anyone have any more suggestions for pagan activities for the holidays? how about baking... No matter what religion one looks at, the oven has some great symbolism. Especially on the longest night of the year, when the old king is dead and the new king not yet born. A super way to add some pagan flavour to the holidays!
If i recall correctly Samson, it was you who got your undies in a twist when I "corrected" you. Everything i have posted has been in direct response to one of your rants on how we dummies should have seen the instant connection to Zeus and Papa Noel. And just when I thought you were going to share that knowledge, you brought out the "they both have" or "they both are" fluff argument that mushes everything together. Zeus was a aristocratic city god, of the government not the people, Odin was a peoples god of Indo-European origin. Zeus was not. If you are going to play the archtype game, then at least make sure you can trace the origin to the same point, rather than saying they both are judges and married, and what ever other silly neopagan fluff you wanted to throw in.
Celebrate the solstice however you want, celebrate specific holidays the way they are supposed to be celebrated. What if i wanted to celebrate Christmas, but not in the way it is celebrated, but instead, tell my children that a large bunny will bring them gifts, and that we will burn a candle everynight for 8 nights, and then we will hunt eggs in the snow? I wont be celebrating Christmas will I?
I think that about sums it up right there. If you are going to celebrate a SPECIFIC holiday such as Christmas then you need to know how it is celebrated. While a more general event such as the Winter Solstice can be celebrated by whatever way you wish.
Heron, if you wanted to talk about this I am okay with it, but you have taken to name calling more than once. I havent tried to start any fights here, and dont understand the negativity you have toward basic holiday suggestions. Without inquiring about my background or education you have quickly labeled me incorrectly. I enjoy a good discussion, but have no desire to engage in petty games. I just do not agree that odin is the only godform borrowed from in the male representations at yule. Actually, I rather have a hard time converting one-eyed rune reading Odin to todays Kris Kringle. More I see the Greco-roman influence, but there are so many things wrapped together to make Santa that the cultural anthrpology gives way to a more basic father-old king. Thusly, my point of Zeus and Santa both being offered children, often with the children being terrified in both cases. If you dont agree that there is a patriarchal thing that zeus and santa share, fine. If you think that one particular aspect of deity has only one name, fine. For me, its different. We will just have to agree to disagree, and you can think what you want... most folks do that already.
Reality is that Santa was created in his present form by the Coca Cola company. Originally, I believe he was Saint Nicholas. He doesn't correspond very closely with any pagan deity.
I don't deny there are similarities - but there are a hell of a lot more differences between Odin and Santa - Myself, I think Santa is an obnoxious emblem, nowerdays more an icon for consumerism than anything else. Maybe you're right though and he is a kind of survival of some stuff associated with Odin..it's certainly more likely than Zeus.
In September, We visited Newgrange Passage Tomb in Co. Meath, Ireland. This is a Neolithic Age burial monument containing a portal which lets in the sunrise on December 21 only. The Solistice sunrise lights up the entire passage grave. The rest of the year, its dark The Monument has a visitor center with knowledgable guides, and excellent place to visit. It is said that it took the community 15 years to build the monument, with no metal tools. It held the remains of 5 individuals. It was constructed some 5,000 years ago at a time when agricultural practice first reached Ireland, this is the new stone age. This is our evidence for the primacy of Solstice rights going back 5,000 yrs. It shows a stratified society with a hireachy and disparate income going way back.
In September, We visited Newgrange Passage Tomb in Co. Meath, Ireland. This is a Neolithic Age burial monument containing a portal which lets in the sunrise on December 21 only. The Solistice sunrise lights up the entire passage grave. The rest of the year, its dark The Monument has a visitor center with knowledgable guides, and excellent place to visit. It is said that it took the community 15 years to build the monument, with no metal tools. It held the remains of 5 individuals. It was constructed some 5,000 years ago at a time when agricultural practice first reached Ireland, this is the new stone age. This is our evidence for the primacy of Solstice rights going back 5,000 yrs. It shows a stratified society with a hireachy and disparate income going way back.
