The United States of Torture.

Good ol' Skip. Always trying to have it both ways. We didn't make profit because we lost! And at the same time the corporations made out big time! Well, which was it skip? The corporations always make money or they don't?

You have to take one of the most fanatically partisan attitudes of anyone here. Clinton did everything for good reasons! He's so good we can even link to US military websites and trust what they say about Somalia! But the Republicans are bad, bad bad! Now the military is evil and everything they say is a lie! And we can't trust what Repubilcans say or what the media says about them either! You'd think the whole military is replaced every time a new President is elected.

The US went to Somalia to stop a famine.

Fighting in Somalia killed or wounded over 20,000 people in 1991. The destruction led to starvation, and food aid was hijacked sometimes traded for weapons by warlords. 80% of the food aid was stolen. 300,000 people died from starvation, and another 1.5 million people suffered between 1991 and 1992. Popular opinion demanded that Bush "do something". With backing by a UN security council resolution, US troops led a UN effort to improve security so aid could be distributed. 24 Pakistani troops were soon killed in a single ambush - more troops than America would eventually lose in Mogadishu. Did Pakistan have economic interests in Somalia? Of course we don't ask that question, it would be impossible for anybody but the US to be to blame for anything.

So Skip you call this "all about oil" and then wonder why nobody wanted to intervene in Rwanda? Rwanda has gold, tungsten, and many other minerals. Bush has stock in Newmont, the largest US gold mining company. Could anything be more predictable than Skip looking at "claims" of imminent genocide in Rwanda, drawing the gold connection, and then attacking the whole thing as a giant corporate conspiracy, had it been under a Republican president?

This is the game you play Skip. People like you attack the US for Somalia and then wonder why nobody intervenes in Rwanda. Your hatred of Republicans trumps any cause.

 

I thought you might.. I [also] thought your first thought would have been .. ''America might not, but it does not mind sending their prisoners to countrys that are far from liberal or democratic.'' .. Thats the first thought i had [till i realised what team i am supporting ].

 

comment skip?

 

ohhhh, skip we were so sad when you left the country, we lost a real prize.

 

hahaha I didn't realize - only read first page - skip trying to respond to logic, that's a hoot; "republicans are bad, bad, bad" lol.

 

Oh yeah our glorious invasion of Somalia, where we taught the Somali's how wonderful freedom is, and how our form of justice includes shooting someone dead like a dog for stealing a pair of sunglasses.

 

Who is we paleface? What do you mean 'our' sense of justice? Who is we? In any case what is worse, retributivism carried out on one, or half a million Somalis dead from famine (and of course, 1 million on the verge of dying)? You sir, are missing this greaaat big picture that lay before you.

 

WE is the country whose soldier shot a child dead for touching his sunglasses.

If you want to talk about a country that won't allow other countries to aid it's citizens, you don't have to look far.
In the 80's, during Hurricane Reagan, Poland sent thousands of wool blankets to the U.S. to have distributed to the vast homeless population caused by Reaganomics, some who were freezing to death.
Our gov't refused to accept them and sent them back to Poland.

 

Well what the hell let's just drop the Somalia subject. Don't be naive, or stupid. The mores of American society cannot be summarized in the actions of one soldier.

I was unaware that Soviet controlled Poland sent us blankets. Maybe the slavish Poles should have sent them to the Gulags instead.

 

"Well what the hell let's just drop the Somalia subject."
-I see you gave up on trying to convince others of how evil the people of Somalia are.

"I was unaware that Soviet controlled Poland sent us blankets."
-There's probably lots of stuff you're unaware of.

"Maybe the slavish Poles should have sent them to the Gulags instead."
-Nice to condem the Poles for trying to help homeless Americans (rrr called them 'campers').
But what does the Soviet Union have to do with the U.S refusing blankets for Americans who needed them?

 

This is no new news, this had been going on ever since the inaction of the Patriot Act, and there have been several reports by many of the major networks about the CIA exporting terrorists to countries that have lax terror laws, such as Uzbekistan, Jordan, Qatar, and others over the past few years.

I think it's pretty clear that the majority of the oil, gold, and timber company executives could give a fuck less about the welfare of the indiginent people of the area or the environment. Regardless of the liberal/conservative dichotomy that most fall prey to, it has shown throughout history that human nature constitutes a willing to commit avarice and deceit in order to better himself/his group, in fact it is an intergral component to survival in evolutionary terms.

Of course, this doesn't mean that human nature won't/can't change.

 

Hey skip, what subject is your post on? Ever heard of leading by example? You've made 3 posts in a thread, none of which had anything to do with the beginning subject. Hey, why don't you post a warning for some of the LEFTIST, LIBERAL posts not concerned with the thread topic skip? Discrimination, a favorite tool of the left.

Hey I thought this was a free speech website man? The old forum was, or was at least purported to be. Or maybe you finally took that down? You know I warned you about that. Maybe now you just feel like telling people what they should post eh? Gives it that nice communistic feel, mmm that's fuzzy. Anyway, start posting on the thread topic, or stay away.

 

Never did I ever. You mocked our going into Somalia; I cited a reason for doing so.

Oh keep up the good work! Attacking the individual, not the subject.

Are you trying to say that Polish people were actually in control of their country? They were SERVILE. Like I said, they should have sent them to the Gulags, the concentration camps where their own people were dying.

 

C-130's run out of Little Rock Air Force Base. You can do some wonderful things with C-130's some of the crewdogs tell me. Like putting the crew on oxygen then letting the cabin pressure drop. The people you are hauling sure act funny when you do that. All wars are evil. All wars lead to torture. The problem as pointed out in the initial post is that the US is attempting to give torture the sanction of law. This flies in the face of all we say we stand for. I also do not believe that the current bunch of cronies in power is reprehensive of the Republican Party. Not that I am a Republican but our current leaders are driving off even their on constituency. If only someone would give Bush a blowjob so we could impeach him

 

skip
i agree with you about the clinton years, i think he could have been a great president if the republican congress had left him alone. he and hillary had incredible ideas for health programs, and there was so much work when clinton was president, and it is always the republicans that cut the social programs. i was a social worker for 15 years and watched how the social programs were cut and suffered during bush I and bush II and through the regan years too.

hippiewise angel

 

Skip, you made no sense. So America "invaded" Somalia during a famine, because they wanted to steal their natural resources. But the didn't invade Rwanda during a genocide because they wanted to steal their resources. You are saying that two polar opposite example both prove the the same thing. It other words, no matter what happens, it proves the US is bad.

But if you want to stick to torture, OK. I'd start by asking why Lynndie England is in jail if the US approves torture. I'd also ask you to elaborate on this quote:

I wonder - would you have called us no better than Hitler? Would you have said we are in no position to liberate Europe if we are a bunch of torturers? Think about all the other bad things about America back then - the racism, the sexism, homophobia, poverty, etc, so much worse than today. Would you have called off D-Day and sat at home prosecuting government and military officials, tormented by national self loathing? Wonder what the world would look like today.

Because it seems to be your attitude to Iraq. Is Iraq the only arab democracy, fighting a life of death struggle with the worst kind of fascists and extremists at the very earliest and most fragile stages of its existence? Yes. And Afghanistan too. But as far as I can tell that seems to mean very little to you, always looking for the first excuse to blame America, pack up and go home. In fact I'm not really sure what it is that you object to about Rwanda - seems like things worked out perfectly. As you and rangerdanger would presumably agree, Rwandans and Somalis are better off suffereing genocide and famine in the hundreds of thousands rather than taking the risk that a US solider would shoot a thief (and later be court martialed).