Kharakov, you're on the Christianity board, working Mr. Campbell and company over, and you're here too, cussing people out and telling them they're going to hell. Could you please at least clarify your position, in plain English?
K is a causalist - ie one who believs that every single event requires God's will - so, for an apple to fall from a tree, God has first to will it to detach, then to fall to earth and keep falling till it hits. Then God has to will it to remain where it is. Such a position ignores completely the existence of laws of nature such as gravity. It is also a position which cannot be shown to be false by logic. It's wierd. But K has even argued before now that God wants the destruction of the natural environment here on earth, and that anyone who is concerned about green issues is against God's will, and like all other than K himself, in ignorance.
Exactly. Your position ignores the truth, that the "laws" of nature are simply manifestation of God. When you see a hot singer dancing seductively, do you credit her for her loving movements? Really. Bait is bait. Whatever God's gotta use... Not exactly. They are in wisdom too. Everything is not true, among the cunning.
Yeah, I imagine all that crystal meth gives you quite a rush. You're right, I probably couldn't handle it.
This is simplistic in the extreme. If I make a machine, I then switch it on, and leave it to run. It doesn't need me to be there turning the wheels. The machine, it is true, wouldn't exist without my will and creative power, but it runs automatically, according to the laws upon which its design is based. When I see a hot singer dancing seductively, I don't actually equate that with love. It's simply a way to make money, under the capitalist system, through exploiting male sexual desire. It is their own descision to take this form of action - the universe allows it, supports it even, just as it would them deciding not to dance. It doesn't indicate that God wills it or doesn't will it. It might tell us something about how easily people are duped. As for your statements about the will of God being behind the destruction of the environment, it's there on the 'green spirituality' thread in the P&R forum - assuming you haven't edited your statements.
Drifting a little off topic...Bill, you remember when I told you about my younger brother dying 10 yrs. ago at 43 of a heroin OD? Well, the same thing happened again...I ran into an old friend last week and he told me about a friend of my brother's who was also a junkie and who had died of an OD 2 yrs. ago at 53. This guy who died was one of those super-talented "could've been another Eric Clapton" rock guitarists whose career flamed out very early because he got instantly hooked on hard drugs. He spent the next 30+ years shooting up and in/out of jail and rehab.
The glow of the light of daybreak is in your emerald vault, the goblet of the blood of twilight is your blood-measuring bowl. Mile on mile, torrent on torrent come dancing and gliding to the shore of your sea. With all the abstention and aspiration of the moon, the cap falls off the head of the moon when the moon raises its face to gaze upon your height. Every morn the nightingales lament like the heart-forlorn ones to the melodies of those attaining your verdant meadow. The spirits seek vision, the hearts all seek the Beloved; you in whose broad orchard four streams are let flow -- one stream pure water, another honey, the third fresh milk, the fourth your ruby wine. You never give me a chance, you are giving wine upon wine; where is the head, that I may describe the drinking-cup of your wine? Yet who am I? Heaven itself in the round of this heavy bumper finds not a moment's peace from your love and the craving for you. Moon of silver girdle, you have experience of love; heaven, loverhood is apparent in your features. When love is yoked to the heart it wearies of the heart's chatter; heart, be silent! How long this striving and inquiring of yours? The heart said, "I am His reed pipe, I wail as the breath inn me." I said, "Be lamenting now, the slave of whose passion is the soul." We have opened your door; do not desert your companions; in thankfulness for an all-embracing love which has seized you from head to toe. -Rumi
You don't get it. You have seen someone dance seductively out of love, but you have not perceived the love behind it. Manifestations of God's loving dance are everywhere around you. Really.
The Flute Rajneesh (Osho) The flute is a small instrument in the hands of God Who plays His song The flute is a polished piece of wood, It is hollow inside. But it can be filled with the breath of GodÉ God takes This hollow lifeless piece of wood And touches it with His lips. God starts to breath Himself into the body of the flute, And it comes alive And from His breath and the flute music is born. The breath of God and the small instrument Merge And become the sound of a Divine songÉ There is only the breath of God And His gentle Hands, Which touch the flute with the fingertipsÉ There is only the song of GodÉ The flute itself is mute Without His Divine breath. Your body is the flute. And then there is no you, there is only the Creator, Who sings His Song of Love! Written down by Anna Zubkova, November 2000. "My song has put off her adornments. She has no pride of dress and decoration. Ornaments would mar our union. They would come between thee and me. Their jingling would drown thy whispers. My poet's vanity dies in shame before thy sight. O Master Poet, I have sat down at thy feet. Only let me make my life simple and straight like a flute of reed for thee to fill with music."- Tagore
Back in the 70's when he was Rajneesh, he had many folowers in the west who used to dress in orange and wear a kind of necklace with his pic on it. They were commonly called 'orange people'. He also had an ashram in India, where promiscuous sex, drugs and all-night rock n'roll etc was the order of the day - It was said to be Tantric teachings, but it certainly fitted in well with the agendas of many rich western kids back in those days. A friend of mine back then went to the ashram and became a follower - he told me that Rajneesh charged him $300 for a ten minute interview - and evidently said nothing. Oshso also grew exremely rich on the proceeds of the guru game, and possesed a large fleet of Rolls Royce cars. Eventually, he had to leave India (there was some scandalous allegation - the details elude my memory) and set up a base in the US - further scandals and allegations followed - I can't recall the details - There are also stories that towards the end, Rajneesh became almost addicted to nitrous oxide (laughing gas) and used to lie on a bed for hours taking it whilst watching Tom & Gerry cartoons. But whatever - you're doing a great job on this thread Nicole.
Bill, when something beautiful is given to you, it is beautiful whether wrapped in rags or in silk. It is the same with wisdom. Take what is good leave the rest. Is that not the way of the Paramahamsa? I have the same issues with Osho as you, but he did say some very wise things. I think it would be a sad waste to throw them away.
Ok - only stating it for the benefit of others really - because since his death Rajneesh has been re-packaged as Osho - and the background reality gets obscured...
