Great Hindu Saint Recovers and Leaves Hospital

So if one worships god in the form of Krishna, then after coming to see divinity in all things, one forgets about the embodied form of Krishna?

There is no reason not to believe that any particular dog is not a locus for divine presence. Anything can be. Even a piece of stone in a temple. If we focus our devotion on any object, seeing only the divinity in it, then we will definitely grow rapidly. After all divinity is present equally inall things and all places.

 

Touche. This is very true Bhaskar...

 

There seems to be a contradiction here. On one hand, every piece of stone you say can be a locus of the divine. So likewise every animal and every person.
So what is the point of forms of gods and avatars? If divinty is equally present everywhere and at all times?
I think it's easy enough to see that it's really a question of levels or degrees of consciousness. In the stone, there is very little consciousness, if indeed there is any at all. In animals is found a kind of ascending scale of awareness, from lower to higher forms. With humans, there comes in the possibility of realization, of attainment of a higher knowledge. Animals know, man knows that he knows, as is said. The consciousness of gods and avatars is quite naturally of a yet higher order. Only the Supreme has/is full and complete consciousness.
I feel myself that people are better off looking for God as reflected in these higher divine forms, while realizing still that no form can represent the Supreme completely.

A person concentrating on a particular image, focusing with full attention and openess (trataka) may come to see God in that object or form.
That doesn't mean though that all forms equally reflect the divine. In fact, it can be argued that it is form itself which veils the divine from our consciousness.

If a holy man blesses an animal, no doubt the animal may get some benefit. But I don't think it attains immediately to the highest jnana while still remaining in an animal form. It's level of consciousness must surely remain way below that of even ignorant humans.

 

Vibhutihi.
Sri Krishna explains this in detail, both in Bhgavad Gita and in Srimad Bhagavatam canto 11. God is there equally in all things, because there is nothing other than God anywhere. However, to us jivas God is more easily noticeable in avatars, than in a stone. Just as the beauty of nature is in every drop of water, but it truly reaches us only when we see a might river, rather than just a small trickle of watr. Both are water, but one is more impressive to us than the other.

And that supreme is everywhere and in everything, since there is none other than it. Where then comes a question of seeing more or less divinity in things? It is true that different jivas have different levels of awarenss of that divinity, but that does not mean that the divinity is in them in more or less extent.

While it is easier to see the divine in avatars, the divine is equally in everything for us to see, sarvam Krishnamayam jagat. And it is said in bhagavatam, whatever you need to do to absorb your mind in God do it. Whether it be worshipping divinity in a dog or in yourself or in Krishna. kenaapi upaayena manah krishne niveshayet.

No form reflects divinity more or less, it is only we who are able to see divinity to a greater or lesser extent in anything.

The highest jnana is beyond body and mind. So why does it matter whether you are in human body/mind or animal body/mind? Once blessed with realization it does not matter. The point is to reach a goal, does it matter if you use a mercedes benz or a pick-up truck? Ramana Maharishi, one of the greatest sages of all time, would not say something like that unless it were true. What had he to gain?

 

I'd say that the main difference between the avatar and a stone is that the stone is unconscious, while the avatar has a divine consciousness.
I'd go further, and say that the more conscious a thing is the more it reflects or embodies the divine.
But - there is a kind of paradox here too, because actually god is in every atom.
Once again I think it's because of our unique human viewpoint and possibilities, made possible by the fact that man alone of earthly creatures has develpoped a symbolic language and mental or rational knowledge that we have the possibility to go higher. What meaning could there be in the supra-rational for a being with no development of the rational?
Lacking the mental apparatus of the human being, it's hard to see how an animal could become illuminated in the same way as a human being. I think that so long as we are embodied, we are stuck with the level of the spieces to which we belong in general.
We are humans, and as Sri Aurobindo said, man is above all the mental being. Animals are controlled by vital impulses - only man has the capacity to control or modify these impulses, by the power first of mind, and then by a higher spiritual power. It is a question of mind becoming an instrument for a higher conscious power. Mind transformed by the power of the spirit, let's say. But mind has to be there as a basis.
So I don't see really how a liberated dog or cow could be much real help on the path.

 

Varaha

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrita

CC Antya 1 Summary

CC Antya 1.1: I offer my respectful obeisances to Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy even a lame man can cross over a mountain and a dumb man recite Vedic literature.

CC Antya 1.2: My path is very difficult. I am blind, and my feet are slipping again and again. Therefore, may the saints help me by granting me the stick of their mercy as my support.

CC Antya 1.3-4: I pray to the lotus feet of the six Gosvamis -- Sri Rupa, Sanatana, Bhatta Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta and Dasa Raghunatha -- so that all impediments to my writing this literature will be annihilated and my real desire will be fulfilled.

CC Antya 1.5: Glory to the all-merciful Radha and Madana-mohana! I am lame and ill advised, yet They are my directors, and Their lotus feet are everything to me.

CC Antya 1.6: In a temple of jewels in Vrindavana, underneath a desire tree, Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, served by Their most confidential associates, sit upon an effulgent throne. I offer my humble obeisances unto Them.

CC Antya 1.7: Sri Srila Gopinatha, who originated the transcendental mellow of the rasa dance, stands on the shore at Vamsivata and attracts the attention of the cowherd damsels with the sound of His celebrated flute. May they all confer upon us their benediction.

CC Antya 1.8: All glories to Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu! All glories to Lord Nityananda! All glories to Advaita Acarya! And all glories to all the devotees of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

CC Antya 1.9: I have briefly described the pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu known as the madhya-lila. Now I shall attempt to describe something about His last pastimes, which are known as the antya-lila.

CC Antya 1.10: I have briefly described the antya-lila within the description of the madhya-lila.

CC Antya 1.11: I am now almost an invalid because of old age, and I know that at any moment I may die. Therefore I have already described some portions of the antya-lila.

CC Antya 1.12: In accordance with the synopsis previously written, I shall describe in detail whatever I have not mentioned.

CC Antya 1.13: When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu returned to Jagannatha Puri from Vrindavana, Svarupa Damodara Gosani immediately sent news of the Lord's arrival to the devotees in Bengal.

CC Antya 1.14: Upon hearing this news, mother Saci and all the other devotees of Navadvipa were very joyful, and they all departed together for Nilacala [Jagannatha Puri].

CC Antya 1.15: Thus all the devotees of Kulina-grama and Sri Khanda, as well as Advaita Acarya, came together to meet Sivananda Sena.

CC Antya 1.16: Sivananda Sena arranged for the journey. He maintained everyone and provided residential quarters.

CC Antya 1.17: While going to Jagannatha Puri, Sivananda Sena allowed a dog to go with him. He supplied it food to eat and maintained it.

CC Antya 1.18: One day, when they needed to cross a river, an Orissan boatman would not allow the dog to get in the boat.

CC Antya 1.19: Sivananda Sena, unhappy that the dog had to stay behind, paid the boatman ten pana of conchshells to take the dog across the river.

CC Antya 1.20: One day while Sivananda was detained by a tollman, his servant forgot to give the dog its cooked rice.

CC Antya 1.21: At night, when Sivananda Sena returned and was taking his meal, he inquired from the servant whether the dog had gotten its meals.

CC Antya 1.22: When he learned that the dog had not been supplied food in his absence, he was very unhappy. He then immediately sent ten men to find the dog.

CC Antya 1.23: When the men returned without success, Sivananda Sena became very unhappy and fasted for the night.

CC Antya 1.24: In the morning they looked for the dog, but it could not be found anywhere. All the Vaishnavas were astonished.

CC Antya 1.25: Thus in great anxiety they all walked to Jagannatha Puri, where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu met them as usual.

CC Antya 1.26: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu went with them to see the Lord in the temple, and on that day He also took lunch in the company of all those devotees.

CC Antya 1.27: As previously, the Lord provided them all with residential quarters. And the next morning all the devotees came to see the Lord.

CC Antya 1.28: When all the devotees came to the place of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they saw the same dog sitting a little apart from the Lord.

CC Antya 1.29: Furthermore, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was throwing remnants of green coconut pulp to the dog. Smiling in His own way, He was saying to the dog, "Chant the holy names 'Rama,' 'Krishna' and 'Hari.'"

CC Antya 1.30: Seeing the dog eating the green coconut pulp and chanting "Krishna, Krishna" again and again, all the devotees present were very surprised.

CC Antya 1.31: When he saw the dog sitting in that way and chanting the name of Krishna, Sivananda, because of his natural humility, immediately offered his obeisances to the dog just to counteract his offenses to it.

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrita

CC Antya 1 Summary

CC Antya 1.1: I offer my respectful obeisances to Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, by whose mercy even a lame man can cross over a mountain and a dumb man recite Vedic literature.

CC Antya 1.2: My path is very difficult. I am blind, and my feet are slipping again and again. Therefore, may the saints help me by granting me the stick of their mercy as my support.

CC Antya 1.3-4: I pray to the lotus feet of the six Gosvamis -- Sri Rupa, Sanatana, Bhatta Raghunatha, Sri Jiva, Gopala Bhatta and Dasa Raghunatha -- so that all impediments to my writing this literature will be annihilated and my real desire will be fulfilled.

CC Antya 1.5: Glory to the all-merciful Radha and Madana-mohana! I am lame and ill advised, yet They are my directors, and Their lotus feet are everything to me.

CC Antya 1.6: In a temple of jewels in Vrindavana, underneath a desire tree, Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, served by Their most confidential associates, sit upon an effulgent throne. I offer my humble obeisances unto Them.

CC Antya 1.7: Sri Srila Gopinatha, who originated the transcendental mellow of the rasa dance, stands on the shore at Vamsivata and attracts the attention of the cowherd damsels with the sound of His celebrated flute. May they all confer upon us their benediction.

CC Antya 1.8: All glories to Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu! All glories to Lord Nityananda! All glories to Advaita Acarya! And all glories to all the devotees of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

CC Antya 1.9: I have briefly described the pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu known as the madhya-lila. Now I shall attempt to describe something about His last pastimes, which are known as the antya-lila.

CC Antya 1.10: I have briefly described the antya-lila within the description of the madhya-lila.

CC Antya 1.11: I am now almost an invalid because of old age, and I know that at any moment I may die. Therefore I have already described some portions of the antya-lila.

CC Antya 1.12: In accordance with the synopsis previously written, I shall describe in detail whatever I have not mentioned.

CC Antya 1.13: When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu returned to Jagannatha Puri from Vrindavana, Svarupa Damodara Gosani immediately sent news of the Lord's arrival to the devotees in Bengal.

CC Antya 1.14: Upon hearing this news, mother Saci and all the other devotees of Navadvipa were very joyful, and they all departed together for Nilacala [Jagannatha Puri].

CC Antya 1.15: Thus all the devotees of Kulina-grama and Sri Khanda, as well as Advaita Acarya, came together to meet Sivananda Sena.

CC Antya 1.16: Sivananda Sena arranged for the journey. He maintained everyone and provided residential quarters.

CC Antya 1.17: While going to Jagannatha Puri, Sivananda Sena allowed a dog to go with him. He supplied it food to eat and maintained it.

CC Antya 1.18: One day, when they needed to cross a river, an Orissan boatman would not allow the dog to get in the boat.

CC Antya 1.19: Sivananda Sena, unhappy that the dog had to stay behind, paid the boatman ten pana of conchshells to take the dog across the river.

CC Antya 1.20: One day while Sivananda was detained by a tollman, his servant forgot to give the dog its cooked rice.

CC Antya 1.21: At night, when Sivananda Sena returned and was taking his meal, he inquired from the servant whether the dog had gotten its meals.

CC Antya 1.22: When he learned that the dog had not been supplied food in his absence, he was very unhappy. He then immediately sent ten men to find the dog.

CC Antya 1.23: When the men returned without success, Sivananda Sena became very unhappy and fasted for the night.

CC Antya 1.24: In the morning they looked for the dog, but it could not be found anywhere. All the Vaishnavas were astonished.

CC Antya 1.25: Thus in great anxiety they all walked to Jagannatha Puri, where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu met them as usual.

CC Antya 1.26: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu went with them to see the Lord in the temple, and on that day He also took lunch in the company of all those devotees.

CC Antya 1.27: As previously, the Lord provided them all with residential quarters. And the next morning all the devotees came to see the Lord.

CC Antya 1.28: When all the devotees came to the place of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they saw the same dog sitting a little apart from the Lord.

CC Antya 1.29: Furthermore, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was throwing remnants of green coconut pulp to the dog. Smiling in His own way, He was saying to the dog, "Chant the holy names 'Rama,' 'Krishna' and 'Hari.'"

CC Antya 1.30: Seeing the dog eating the green coconut pulp and chanting "Krishna, Krishna" again and again, all the devotees present were very surprised.

CC Antya 1.31: When he saw the dog sitting in that way and chanting the name of Krishna, Sivananda, because of his natural humility, immediately offered his obeisances to the dog just to counteract his offenses to it.

 

Awesome.

There's also the story of the sage Narada Muni walking through the forest, with lions and tigers roaring Krishna's name as he passed.

 

Mahabharata Home Page

[size=+2]Part VII: "Heaven" & "Hell"[/size]

Some years after Yuddhistira becomes king, the Pandavas have had enough of life in the court. They depart to find the road to Heaven. Four of the Pandavas and Draupadi die along the way: only Yuddhistira remains.

Yuddhistira Reaches Heaven

Yuddhistira finally comes to the gate of heaven, accompanied by his dog. The dog is refused entrance by the guard. Upon hearing this, Yuddhistira is indignant. He swears he will stay out if his faithful dog cannot go with him. The gods are pleased by his committment to ultimate justice, and admit him. The dog reassumes the form of Dharma, Yuddhistira's father. After he gets inside the gates, Yuddhistira discovers that there is neither heaven nor hell, but that it is in the minds of people, not an actual, physical, reality. In the afterlife, he is reunited with his brothers and wife, and with Duryodhana, who is now gracious and generous.

 

Foolish! worshipping dogs is foolish and thats all I am going to say, but you may not see where I am coming from and what my point is, and that is perfectly fine, but the fact remains as it is.

 

Er, nevermind, I actually read the thread and my question was answered

 

This is one time I agree 100%.

 

I gotta post another one of TOR Hershman’s satires.
I got ‘em in Word so it’s just a copy and paste.

Sing this to the tune of “Here Comes the Sun”

“George Harrison”
or
“Krispy Krishna”

George Harrison - George Harrison
Catfish snack tonight
Little Darlin’ there is no need to be a swimmer
if you’re a Ganges River catfish’s dinner

George Harrison - George Harrison
Catfish snack tonight

Beatle fish dinner headin’ for some down the river places
Krispy Krishna’s ashes, brunch for the oyster bunch

George Harrison - George Harrison
Catfish snack tonight

George gone over fish’s tongue
George gone over fish’s tongue
George gone over fish’s tongue
George coming out fish’s bung
George coming out fish’s bung
George coming out fish’s bung

Like a Little Debbie cake, I am in digestive juices
Where my ashes were dumped someone just took a freakin’ crap

No Brahma, Vishnu, Siva seen
just fish intestine and spleen

recycled

George Harrison - George Harrison

There is no Krishna

recycled

 

My God, and people criticise me because I say psychedelics are not all that bad!
Even on acid, I never yet saw a dog chanting anything. Mainly, they just bark, although some whine a lot too.

It is simply impossible for the dogs voice box to produce anything even resembling human speech. Evidently, they've tried to teach chimps (which are geneticaaly very similar to us) to talk, but without any success.

So the only possible explanation would be that somehow, by some miraculous trasformatory process, the dog's voice box and vocal chords had been changed, as if by magic. But what a waste of time! Why not use such power to do something useful?

This is really stretching the bounds of credulity too far.

I wonder if this isn't actually some kind of medieval anti-Muslim propaganda, as Islam considers the dog, along with the pig, to be 'un-clean'.

 

If I were TOR I'd chuck it in. This is simply crap. Not even slightly funny.
I don't mind people criticizing anything, but really, this is dross.

 

If someone finds some peace and solace by worshipping divinity, why cavil? There are far worse things they could do. And by any form if God is worshipped sincerely, god is reached. Bhagawan Krishna said in bhagavad geeta that in whichever way you worship me, I will be available to you in that way. If you think it is wrong and foolish, there is nothing I can do to change that. But divinity is something far beyond the realm of matter, so matter envelpments can be overlooked, if the divinity beyond is seen. Even a buffalo recited the vedas under the blessing of Sant Jnaneshwar maharaj. ANything is possible.

 

Celtic mythology too has stories of talking animals. However, the stories are correctly seen as myth - not historical fact.

Perhaps in some Indian scriptures this line has become blurred.
No other animal is capable of human speech for the reasons I gave before. If one appeared to be speaking, it could only be according to the subjective awareness of those present who observed it. A type of hallucination.

 

We're turning this into a philosophical religious debate when I think the issue here is some people are cat people and other people are dog people. Black Bill and Jedi are obviously not dog people and they worship cats while others of us here are dog people and worship dogs.

 

lol...I love you ChiefCowpie! hehehe...I actually get along much better with cats...they are attracted to me...lol...its really funny...my grandmother's cat used to climb up and sleep next to me when I was little and used to sleep over her house...and my grandmother (we call her Nanny) used to say that I was a special little girl because that cat didn't like just anyone lol....oh...good memories...I was always sad she never got another cat ...my parents are not animal people...so the only pets I ever had were goldfish...