What every Hindu should know...

Actually K, I don't think Kali is an avatar. Some say Sri Ramakrishna was an avatar of Kali. He said that all religions are are good as each other.

 

ditto... Kali is the Source

 

Kali, like many other deities can be identified with the Absolute by their devotees.. eg. Krishna is identified with the Brahman in the Gita.

My main point is Hindus should not just lay in the dust and die and watch the missionaries convert and exploit poor Hindus, and Muslims claim more and more of Indian land. I am a student of history.. First the Muslims claim Iran by expelling the Persian Zoroastrians, then they march into Afghanistan and expel the Hindu Dogras and Buddhist Ghandara, then they later went into Pakistan and present day Bangladesh and conquered that. Now Kashmir and West Bengal is facing the same fate as other states, and I cannot bear and watch the land which has originated 33 of the 49 sacred texts of Asia, the oldest religion and philosophy the world has known, be saturated by Muslim and Catholic fundies..

Enough with the blind pacifist bullshit. If we don't stand up for ourselves, India is toast.

 

Your first mistake is saying India belongs to the Hindus. It is a secular state, which, in principle, at least, gives equal treatment to all. If Muslims prosper, it is still India's prosperity. I dont think it is some grand scheme by the muslims of India to take over the country, they are just trynng to survive and prosper, like everyone else.

The problem is not that it is saturated with Islamic or Muslim fundies, it is that it is starting ot be claimed by you Hindu fundamentalists. "This blind pacifist bullshit" is Hindu Dharma. Ahimsa is Hindu dharma. First understand your own religion. It tells you to see the divinity in all, everything, including people of other religions and fundamentalists like yourself.

I dont see annything wrong with west bengal. Hinduism is not dead, nor in any threat. Just because the islamic population or christian population is on the rise does not mean Hinduism is on the decline.

 

Zoroastrianism is very probably older than Hinduism.

However, the expansion of the Muslim empire led to a much greater freedom for the ordinary citizens of Persia, as previously it was very much a slave culture. In fact, that may be one explanation of the ease with which Persia was defeated - an army of free men vs. slaves will usually win.

As Bhaskar has pointed out, non-violence is in fact central to Hinduism, as it is to all true spiritual paths.

More likely that India would become 'neuclear toast' if the Hindu fundies were to get their way.

 

He is a tool of God as much as any of us.

Wink.

 

Ok.

from http://m-w.com/dictionary/avatar
Avatar:
1 : the incarnation of a Hindu deity (as Vishnu)
2 a : an incarnation in human form b : an embodiment (as of a concept or philosophy) often in a person
3 : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
Kali is a destructive and creative aspect of God as the Divine Mother in Hinduism. Kali is the fierce aspect of Devi, God's energy, i.e., Shakti or God as the Divine Mother, who is fundamental to all other Hindu deities.

Kali is considered to be the destroyer of evil spirits and the preserver of devotees. She is the consort of Shiva. Her name seems to be a female version of the word 'kala' (Sanskrit for 'dark' or 'time'- time in this form being a euphemism for death); it also means Black Female, in contrast to her consort, Shiva, who is white; and Kali is the common name for Energy in her form as Shiva's wife, or Shakti. Many people also believe her to be the same as Durga, even though this is not true as Durga is the terrible aspect of Devi, not the Shakti of Shiva. Other names are: Bhowani Devi, Sati, Rudrani, Parvati, Chinnamastika, Kamakshi, Uma, Menakshi, Himavati, Kumari. These names, if repeated, are believed to give special power to the worshipper.

I use a screwdriver for screws and a hammer for nails, although it is possible to pound a screw in with a hammer (screws like to break when you do this) or a nail with a screwdriver (screwdrivers like to break when you do this).

 

I repeat - Kali is not an avatar.

As for the 'hammer & nails' 'screwdriver' thing - it's really a very imprecise analogy.

 

Funny how people turn to wikipedia to understand Hinduism.

By the way kalidas, where did you read that upanishad literally means secret teaching? Id like to know the etymological basis for that translation. As far as I know it means that which is learnt at the feet of the Guru.

Upa - along with
ni - below
shad - seated.

 

To Kali devotees, she is the absolute, all others are avatars and amshakalas, just as to the shaivite, Shiva is absolute and to the vaishnava Vishnu is absolute.

 

Wikipedia is not a very trustworthy source for accurate info in my experience - I've come across incorrect stuff in there before now. The item quoted by K isn't too bad, but very incomplete. The main point here is that it doesn't claim Kali is regarded as an avatar.

I've read that Upanishad means 'forest treatise'.

 

"My Mother is the principle of consciousness.
She is akhanda satchidananda; indivisible Reality, Awareness, and Bliss.
The night sky between the stars is perfectly black. The waters of the ocean depths are the same. The infinite is always mysteriously dark. This inebriating darkness is my beloved Kali...."

"Reality with attributes, saguna Brahman, has been unanimously declared by the Vedas, Puranas, and Tantras to be Mahakali, the primordial energy of awareness. Her Energy is like the rays of the sun.

The original sun is attributeless Reality, nirguna Brahman, boundless Awareness alone. Proceed to the Original through its Radiance. Awaken to non-dual Reality through Mother Kali. She holds the key."



-- Sri Ramakrishna

 

Ok. That's why I posted the definition with part 3 being : a variant phase or version of a continuing basic entity

from: http://www.hindunet.org/god/Goddesses/parvati_durga/index.htm

Goddess Durga, also known as Parvati or Lalitha is the wife (consort) of Lord Shiva and exists in various divine (both friendly and fearful) forms. Two of her fierce but very powerful forms are Durga (goddess beyond reach) and Kali (goddess of destruction).

Seems to be a variant phase or version of the divine mother...

To some.

 

Then why did Vyasadeva consult the Wikipedia in his compiling the Vedas and the Puranas?

 

In the Oxford translation by Patrick Olivelle, it is translated as 'secret teachings' whenever the word comes up, he interprets it in context.. So no, I was mistaken, it is not the literal translation.

Seriously though, the Muslims came to India, (as they came to many other places..) through invasion. The Islamic empire at its peak went from Southern Spain/North Africa all the way to the Indus valley. Conquest anyone?

 

So? Every community has bad history. Would you like to be personally held responsible for widow burning, or caste related torture that occured so much (even occurs occasionally now) in Hindu circles? Nobody should be ried for the crimes of their brother.

 

Yes. Thank you Bhaskar. Though we shouldn't, I think that we should look to what's inside the human heart and soul that leads people to commit acts of violence and evil onto other people. We might learn something..or find a way to stop it/

 

Well, of course.

 

::nods in agreement::