take a look at this

Do elaborate!

 

Do you have blue eyes, blonde hair and speak German...Do you live in a world without Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals...Do you live in a large mansion with 500 acres and negroes/other races as your slaves, do you know that Arian blood courses through your viens to give you the Universal right to live this way...

No...

Oh, then maybe a lot of people died to let you live the way you live now..

And this is not history "humpun Bunkum"...Once not so long ago, this was a bona fide political reality for millions of people with the power to make it happen..

 

We are fighting in Iraq to free the millions of people that live there and their future generations from dictatorship rule. Yes I know we didn't initially go in there to free Iraq but that is the reason we are in there now. The oppression and terrorism of the people in Iraq was not going to stop anytime soon unless someone helped the people. 10,000 civilians dead in Iraq, we are liberating millions, and their children, and their childrens children. The way I look at it is that the lives we are saving compared to the lives we are taking is a thousand fold. Plus if we were to just end the war there would civil war in Iraq. What would happen in civil war? take that 10,000 and multiply it by 10. Thats what would happen.

 

You can also add that we are not going to get any thanks for it....Also the billions od American tax payers dollars going into the infrastructure of HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, ELECTRICITY, WATER, SANITATION, TELEPHONES...Hell, America is paying to rebuild a country..That news never gets in the papers..The new kidney machines, the nerw power lines, water pipes.....oh the list is endless..

 

Oh no we won't get thanks. But because people frown on loss and smile on victory 20 years from now when Iraq is a free state and living how people should, with the ability to chose, all these protesters will be sayin "oh yeah, I was in favor of that war. Thats a great thing we did in Iraq".

 

That's the terrifying thing. Saddam rounded up and killed 100,000 Kurds in the Anfal campaign, which was merely one of the many wars he launched against his own people. Yet people who get their information from antiwar sites actually think that what is happening now is worse.

 

would i care? yes i would, but there are plenty of evil dictators doing this sort ofthing all over the world, what makes saddam so special? would antiwar and islamist sites post them everywhere be interested? i think they might petition the UN! to do someting or not, i dont know.

if they were french civilians killed in the bombing....(last question) no i wouldnt ask why were liberating europe because
1)it was an actual liberaton from a foreign power to re install a soverign, democratic exiled government in france

2)germany declared war on the us, they were an actual security risk

3)a lot of civies were killed because the strategy at the time was carpet bombing. with all the smart weapons today youd think that civilian casualties would go down. but maybe some of the guys guiding the missiles to the target got a bad joystick or something

i could probably go on but ithink ive sufficently answered your question and proved my point.

 

The Anfal claims, like many other incrementally inflated claims lacking any measure of substantiated and incontrovertible physical evidence (quite necessary for justifying war of agression on a nation which has neither demonstrated the capability nor the intent to attack us, let alone the West in general), derive from pathetically scant and questionable sources...


Comprehensive and annotated analysis of the full body of claims used by the Bush admin to justify an illegal war of aggression

 

I have little doubt you would have defended the Reagan admin criminals and lambasted those who decried the illegal backroom activity that eventually became known as the Iran-Contra Affair. Unsurprising that the arch criminals of that era now enjoy reinstated positions of power and influence in this Bush admin (cheif amongst whom, Negroponte, is now the admin's man on the scene in Baghdad to oversee the entrenchment of our new colonial expedition). Oh yes, men worthy of trust indeed. And you call others "dupes"!

 

The problem as I see it is that I get the impression from the way the operation was put together and conducted that those that did it don’t have the best interests of the Iraqi people as there main priority if it was thought about at all.

I’m very glad Saddam is gone I’ve been supporting campaigns to get rid of the bastard for over 20 years the thing was that for half that time (and a long time before it) the west and the US more often than not support his regime. In fact the US supported him right through the time when he was at his bloodiest and most oppressive. Even after the Gulf War US policy assisted Saddam in putting down a rebellion that had had a good chance of overthrowing him. Even those that advocated the invasion Cheney, Wolfy, Rummy et al in a ‘Project for a New American Century’ report argued that although Saddams presence was useful it wasn’t necessary what was important was getting control of Iraq’s strategic position. Also these same people seem willing to work with other brutal regimes like that in Uzbekistan.

History has also taught us that US policy has a tendency to have little regard for a countries peoples freedom and wellbeing when its believes its own interests or the doctrinal position of its political elite’s are at stake. This means I have a suspicion that the Iraqi people will be allowed to have any government as long as that government is pro American and doesn’t interfere with US interests within the area.

Anyway I really do hope the best for the Iraqi people and I think they will need a lot of help and assistance in the coming years as well having to make some tough decisions. The thing is that many people believe that the major blockage on this path is the current US administration’s policy concerning the region and it’s intransigence concerning control in Iraq.

**

As to the "HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, ELECTRICITY, WATER, SANITATION, TELEPHONES" it seems to me (and international law) that the US government and therefore the "American tax payer" took responsibility for those things the moment they toppled the Iraqi government and occupied the country. Is the poster actually arguing that the US and Americans should have had no responsibility for these things?

The thing that seems of relevance here is how very badly prepared the US seems to have been to deal with Iraq infrastructure, in all but a two areas oil and the military. From what I’ve read while contracts were in place and resources being used to ensure the flow of oil and the establishment of military and navel bases other areas were ignored for weeks and in many cases months. This didn’t go unnoticed by the Iraqi people nor was the fact that the Mosques and such organisations as Al Sadr’s were often the ones that did help. Also the security situation from the beginning was not at its best due to the number of troops used in the invasion something that had been pointed out early on. However again it did not go unnoticed that while oil installations got virtually immediate protection other areas such as hospitals, schools, electricity, water, and sanitation did not. This meant that in many areas weeks of looting did more damage than the Gulf War and 12 years of sanctions. It was also reported that even though local resources were available buildings remained un-worked on and idle as US contracts and contractors were not in place.

This again just adds to the idea that the iraqi people were not the main reason for the invasion.

 

Is that the purpose of any attempt at goodwill and assistance toward our planet-mates? You'll never get a thank you by working toward it.
The fact is, whether a despot or not, the people in Iraq knew only him for so long, and even though they were probably relieved when he was removed, they were also lost.
It's like being a 5 year old abused child. Your dad may beat the living daylights out of you, but he's still your dad, and if he's gone and you've got no one else, you want him to come back because you're lost.

Not worse, but not better, either. Each additional life lost is just that, a life lost.

The glaring atrocity here, on the part of the US govt, is lack of foresight or -thought, selfish motives, and disregard for individual life at the expense of larger issues such as 'freedom from oppression', etc. It is true that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, but there are alternative ways of doing things. If you've got a hostage situation at McDonalds, with one hostage in the gunman's arms, and the rest of the people in McDonalds hostage to location, but not being physically restrained, and so therefore not in immediate and dire mortal jeopardy, what do you do? Do you just dive in there with 9mm riot guns and commence to mowing everyone down in one feel swoop of your bullet fire, perhaps saving the one or some of the many hostages while ensuring the assailant is dead? Hell no, what's the sense of that? Target the offender, kill him if you must, but do not endanger the innocent.
Why can't the same principle be applied to the larger version in Iraq? There's no reason the CIA and whomever else can't operate covertly for a good cause, and with careful and circumspect planning, send an assasin willing to make necessary sacrifices of self if needed, and take Hussein out? If we're going to kill so openly with mixed approval at all levels, there would surely be redemption of a more concise and humane plan, when revealed after the fact.
Its not like they don't operate covertly for a myriad of bullshit reasons, many of which are damaging to human life, sometimes US citizens!!?!?!

 

I could'nt have said it better myself, you are right Cosmic Butterfly. It is not okay, anybody who thinks it is, has something wrong in there head. I dont support this war and i sure as hell dont suport Bush. Anybody who belives what Bush tells them or belives that this war is worth it is having the wool pulled over there eyes.

 

I dont know why they think deomoracy is such a good form of governemnt. By our country alone, it has already been proven that democrazy does not work, and is more a form of a "hidden dictatorship".

We are free only because we do what they tell us.

 

This war is not about freeing people. There are still plenty of countries without oil but with dictators. Freeing the Iraqi people will be a happy side effect, unless thye new government is as opressive as the old. Besides Saddam was killing his own people when the first Bush sold him weapons before Iraq-Iran War. During the war the US sold both sides weapons. We allow dictators as long as they play by our rules.

 

So moving..poor Iraqis, makes me glad I'm not american right now, because the whole civilian population is receiving a negative world image because of a few idiots that just want oil. This should have never happened.

 

Ground invasion was never Clinton's doing. Even John Kerry is losing in the polls for being too liberal. America wants the draft. Hippies will get to see the 60's again.

 

It is well documented that the Bush family played a pivitol role in the rise of saddam, Just as the Bush Family played a pivitol role in the rise of Hitler back in the 30's. As said in David Icke's Book "Alice In wonderland and the WTC disaster"..."The public were also not told that it was the Bush government that had armed and funded the very army of Saddam Hussein that Father George had not sent US troops to fight. Much of the funding was channelled through a branch of Italy's Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL) in Atlanta. Congressman Henry Gonzales exposed the BNL scandal in 1991 after he noticed that this little branch of the Italian government bank had loaned Iraq $5 Billion. This money was dispatched to Saddam after November 1989 when the Bush White House guaranteed bank loans to Iraq if they were to be used for the purchase of US farm products. If Saddam defaulted, the US taxpayers picked up the tab for the loan and, since he was always defaulting that was obviously going to be the outcome from the start. As planned, Saddam spent the money on arms, including purchases from the Matrix Churchill machine tool company in England. This company was the subject of a court case in which the British government was implicated. Although many US investigators warned Bush that the money was being used for arms, the loans were allowed to continue. The aim was obvious when you look at the other evidence. Bush was doing the same as his father did with hitler. He was funding an aggressor so he could start a war with him. Some of the money given to Saddam by Bush was spent on buying poison gas from a CIA front called Cardeon Industries in Chile. When the was started, Saddam defaulted on the loans and the US taxpayers footed the Bill for Iraq to fight their own sons and daughters. The Cover-up of this, as usual, led to the targeting of the small fry. The whole thing was blamed on the bank manager at the BNL's Atlanta Branch, Christopher P. Drogoul, who could never have sanctioned that sort of money without the highest authorization"

"Investigative Journalist John Connolly exposed in a Spy Magazine Article that wackenhut had been involved in the arming of Iraq before the Gulf War by transporting the means to produce the very chemical weapons that Father George Bush and Co were saying posed such a threat to the world. George Wackenhut, a former FBI operative, started the company with other FBI associates in 1954 and it's board has been packed over the years with recruits from the FBI, CIA and the military. It has since merged with Group 4 Falck, the world's second largest provider of security services. George Wackenhut is a long-time friend of Father George Bush and has contributed generously to his political capaigns and those of Boy George and Florida governor Jeb Bush. John Conolly wrote that: '...after a six month investigation, in the course which we spoke to more than 300 people, we believe we know that the [Wackenhut] truck did contain equipment necessary for the manufacture of chemical weapons and where it was headed [in the Winter of 1990]: to Saddam Hussein's Iraq. And the Wackenhut corporation-a publicly traded company with strong ties to the CIA and federal contracts worth $200 million a year-was making sure Saddam would be getting his equipment intact".

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

I honestly can't believe how some you people think. Its ok that a couple thousand die cause we are saving millions? Like what the fuck are you talking about saving millions? You have know idea how this war going to turn out. The way its going the Americans are not winning it. The future for Iraqi's might end up much worse then having sadam in power. But because you Americans have this so called born again christian leading you on your crusades. Which he always in communication with the almighty( which i'm not sure if its christian god or the corporate one) But every decision he makes is correct because he was listening to god. But its fucked in the States both parties are run by the corporate elite. So if you you vote for only the 2 parties your vote is moot

 

I noticed it never gets shown when soldiers are helping the civilians, when they are patching up the people who were hurt in their attacks on the soldiers, or hurt in their own terrorist attacks or riots. It seems like the media only wants to show the bad news. And if their are dead civilians shown, the may have been killed by their own.

 

Well you know the pictures you should be showing, are of the 3000 americans killed in the world trade center. War is terrible and it is not pretty. Yet the bigger picture for America is terrifying. You see what is going to happen someday is that a man from a third world country who hates america will someday get a nucler device. It will be given to him by an unnamed country. The device will be transported to an american city in the back seat of a car. When this person feels he is in the best position to detenate
the device he will. You will see on national news how perhaps New York or Chicago is gone and there will be high level meetings to determin who did it.
But know one will know. The fight that is going on today is to try and stop this from happening but American people will not have the will to do what is required to stop this. In six months Iran will have the bomb, North Korea has a few of them already. Soon other nations will have them. Americans will snipe at their president which will aid only the terrorist. In the future, watch for missing American cities. There is no way to stop what is coming. Try nogotiating with insane men.