Krishna-The next gay liberation icon in the west ?

bbb, you sound alot like prabhupada at times

its up to the individuals involved whether love and sex are or are not the same thing...

do we really have to segregate "gone with the wind" from Krishna lila... they both have their archetypal dance of the gods quality about them... sorry but 'gon with the wind' is a great movie... i think a better example would have been soap operas

my point is that there is an action that is beyond action... there is a dance beyond survival

lust at its root is love

 

I personally would avoid the word disgusting when describing what others like to do (assuming it's not harming others, which I dont think consenting homosexuals can be accused of). It's not a very compassionate word. I dont like doing lots of things, but I dont call them disgusting. I just dont feel attracted to participating in them. I use the word disgusting when something harms another on purpose.

 

Wow, don't tell anyone....they might want me to become yet another ISKCON guru to add to the list of over 70 they currently have...

I'm not saying that things are separated from God - just that some reflect some kind of divine reality, whilst others represent only a human reality.
In the case of the gopis, I have always thought that they were supposed to represent human souls, and their devotion to Krishna was of a religious type -
OK perhaps that was mixed in with sex? If so, then according to the lights of many hindu teachers, that would actually disqualify them from being thought of as the highest devotees, because of the attachment.

Myself, I find the whole notion of a bonk with God/Goddess quite ridiculous

Gone with the Wind is a great movie - but it's only another romance in the end. By now it'a all over - Scarlet and Rhett are both long dead, and their love is no more. With the gopis though, it's supposed to be eternal love isn't it?

I'm not at all sure that lust always has love at it's root. I can think of many instances where that doesn't seem to be the case. Think of the programme of organized gang rape carried out in former yugoslavia for example. Look at some of the filth on the internet - see young sweeties 'take it up the ass' - not much love in that.

I've said before and I'll say again that in my view, sex is sex. It is not something I think is to be given up neccesarily, but something which has to be contained within limits. I don't think it is a way into a kind of experience of a higher divine consciousness as practitioners of tantra and also crowlean sex-magic etc think.
But I want to emphazize that I am not of an ascetic turn of mind on this. It can be a beautiful thing, but it's only another human experience.

 

Distasteful might be a better word.

 

OK, I recently came across a gay-porn website with graphic images of some some guys having anal and oral sex with each other. It made my stomach churn...what they were doing was disgusting to me. Maybe I'm not being as PC as you folks like, but that's the most effective term I have to describe my personal reaction.

 

I agree. It's just a simple fact that we straight folks don't very much like the idea of gay sex. And some of the stuff I've seen on tv - eg a documentary about the practice of 'fisting' made me feel total revulsion, to the pont of jokingly saying to my friend who was with me 'hand me my revolver'.

In consideration of gays though, I don't like to label them as disgusting, even if I feel disgust. Some hetrosexual people are just as depraved.

 

Distasteful is little better IMHO BBB.

I think its better to just say your not attracted to the idea or action.

I think it's fine to find many things disgusting. Like murder, rape etc. Because someone is being harmed who doesnt wish to be harmed.

But homosexuals are doing something they find natural, its a part of nature. Like BBB said before, scientists have noticed all animals doing this.

I just feel a little rude, and hurtful to call what they do disgusting. We could have all been born that way inclined. And I am sure none of us would like to be called disgusting for an act we would find natural, and which isnt harming another.

I guess some people find animals copulating in the fields disgusting as well.

Other would find having sex with a disfigured person disgusting.

Or having sex with a disabled person disgusting.

 

Cross dressing is not only practiced by gay men, I once saw my former roommate cross-dressed in public with his girlfriend.

 

Jedi said, "The idea with the gopis is that we are all pure spiritual souls, yes - and we are all like those gopis who are in love with krishna/ or gopas who are in love with krishna. It has nothing to do with this physical world."



Why do we have to be the gopis? We are Krishna... Everybody is Krishna, why identify with the gopis when we can identify with Krishna? Because all souls are one with Krishna... There is no seperation between anything, total oneness, you guys dig?

Lots of Love!

 

It's a question of different paths - some are Advaitins - monists who believe in merging with Krishna or Brahman, others dualists who believe that the Atman is eternally a seperate individual in relation to God.


Clearly you believe in the former - others believe differently.

 

I don't believe in anything, I know it to be truth! It's all one.

True, I am a beginner, still struggling with four of the five hinderances that buddha talked about, lust and greed are big ones for me, plus there is my absurd ego that went on a messianic psychotic ego trip off and on a year or so ago but i beat that motherfucker and it hasn't come back since. i ain't somebody special, and it taught me the abusrdity of my ego and how to really really laugh at my ego, so thus it was krishna's grace... I beat doubt I must confess, thanks to a bunch of mystical experiences, neem karoli baba, my gurus, and the scientific proof found in quantum physics, and all the cosmic coicidences found in science about how earth is created and human life can survive... Thus I like to use the word.

Know rather then belief

And tell the "way it is" rather then present "a belief system"

It's just my trip, but it's still the way it is... Everybody agrees with me on channel 3, where everything is God, but on channel 1 where all the differences are everybody is arguing about every little thing, hehehehe.

Excuse my frech, but FUCK belief, it's a word for doubters or people that just like to use that word... hehehehe...

Note just so you don't take me seriously (note just because joking doesn't mean it's not the truth, Im cosmically joking), here is funny picture.

 

Penguins!!!!!! ::bursts in to fit of giggles::

 

It's hard to really credit that statement - I'm sure you believe in something. For instance, you obviously believe in your own perceptions - otherwise you could hardly claim to 'know'.

 

hehehe, you got me. *ganja prince bows to the guru who shook him out of his silly arrogance*

For example, I believe that Sathya Sai Baba is a phony.

But I don't know it to be truth.

Sometimes I posit that perhaps he is an being with siddhis and stuff but they are not always reliable so he has to fake it sometimes, and he also has a thing for guys and uses his position to pressure men into sex... and so on.. which would make him not totally phony, just partially.

Hehehehe, I could probably come up with tons of these examples.

 

With Sai Baba it's tricky - there are allegations of sexual abuse, and even involvement in a murder. Whether that means he has no power or is a total fake, I wouldn't like to say. It's possible that his followers are just projecting something onto him.
Myself I don't have a problem with his liking boys - I just think it would be better to come clean and have everything out in the open. What I don't like is the idea that he decieves people into believing him to be some kind of model of 'purity'.
And the production of objects such as golden lingams, gold watches etc looks like stage 'magic'.

On the subject of beliefs - it's not enough just to believe - I think thats whats you're saying. And I agree with that, But I think nonetheless that we all do have implicit beliefs. The thing is to try to use belief constructively.
For instance, if I want to enter into a new space, a higher consciousness, it greatly facilitates the process if I believe that space exists and I have the possibility to enter it.
And to have good 'beliefs' about oneself and the universe in general is a good thing. If a person believes themselves to be no good, or the world to be a negative place then that tends to become a 'self-fulfilling prophecy'.
Fixed dogma, or belief based on some kind of 'authority' without personal experience though can be dangerous, and probably leads to a lot of the trouble we see in association with religion in general.

 

BTW Prince - I'm no guru.

Just a fellow traveller and lover of the Universal Mother -
I don't even call myself a Hindu.