How can there not be a god?

MagnanimityMan,

It would seem that you have had an epithany. Now that you have had an existential experience it will be hard for you to listen to others who would make you think that it was an hallucination. As time goes by you may even start to question the validity of the experience, whether you didn't imagine it all.

But you may find that you cannot reproduce it at will. You may find that it can only happen "when you are not there," when there are no desires in your mind and heart, when you know that you are not the doer.

I think that Jung would call that "Synchronicity." I tend to think that answers are given everywhere and that they show up at the right time.

Today I watched a janitor empty his canister into a dumpster. It got stuck and he wouldn't reach in and take the garbage bag out. He was patient and shook it lightly until it slipped out on its own accord.

I went over and asked him if he had worked in a hospital. He said, "No. Why do you ask?" I explained that when one works in a hospital one doesn't grab garbage bags least there be needles in there which may pierce his skin. He said, "I never thought of that."

He just had an innate sense of safety. Most others would have made the judgement that he was slow, stupid or lazy, that he should have reached in and pulled the bag out.

That, to me, was synchroncity.

But your epithany is probably showing you to be open, and to "go with the flow," to trust. This experience has probably changed yo to the point where you are now a seeker. It would seem that your heart has been opened. Don't be surprised if you now see Nature differently, if you pay attention to a lot more around you, that you become empathic and perhaps even a psychic sensitive.

Just don't let life get you down when it turns sour, as it often does. Depression and optimisim are but waves on the ocean of emotions. Stay grounded. (And I don't necessarily mean the mind. )

I wish you peace.

 

Most of what I wrote I really was not thinking when I typed it. (Even if that is not grammatically correct I think you get the gist of what I said.)

The operative word is "proudly". That was his downfall. He felt that he was the doer.

 

white feather,

the experience was definitely something amazing, and i learned during it that i shouldn't be chasing anything, that it does come with softening the heart and mind - it was actually part of what i learned that night. i remember when it happened, when i shared this indescribable something with my friend for the first time, maybe call it healing? - but the union we felt, it can't be put into words, but everything was One. in this, i learned that the beauty we all have in us, and through us, and through this entire world, can only be felt when we open our hearts and dont have a judgement in the world - when we just love, and open. that's how the experience started - because for so long, i hadn't a clue what was going on inside of me, and for so long - while in college and living a life i know now i should cretique a bit - i was almost choking this beautiful spirit, and when it came to sharing it, i didn't know how! or if i was supposed to, or what. i've always fiddled around with energy work, and always felt that i could sense what's wrong with people, whats illing them, and heal them so so so much with just my words and my love (i really noticed this a few years ago the strongest), but the last few years, i guess my un-intunement had me not cherish and even realize the beauty that is... and so i got caught up in a life of 'me' (not as bad as it can be, but i know even how i was, i wasn't giving as much as i want to now, and working towards). the last few weeks i've been givign my friend massages and bodyowkr, because he really needed it, and it's been really doing wonders for him. the night of the experience, i sat him down, and experimented with relaxing all the tension in other ways then massage, it happened with breathing, and talking, and truly, a whole lot of indescribableness, along with me opening up and sharing this, letting it run through me - for the first time i have ever thought to. pretty soon what i was talking about was more obvious and present then anything.
in that experience, i learned that this is what i need to do for a living, just heal and love, but when i though that, i realized i said "i am going to..." and i stopped! something was wrong, but i didn't know what. then i thought "i want to be a..." and thennnn, everything came apart. i realized i can't follow these expectations, and just simply take my first step with faith. i know i have a gift, and it settles at that, it's what is, i learned. no expectations, especially not chasing them - and from what you just said in your post, the same goes for the 'summoning' of such a great spirit, such beauty and healing and Life.
i'm afraid of letting this pass by, and want to do everything i can to nuture and take care of what it is, and i know it's nothing conscious - infact opposite, just to live and love and share and be open, to not expect and to not judge. but i have a feeling that me desire to cherish this might be a fault too. are there any words you can share with me feather? everythign you say is very very very much dead on, and i cherish your words so so so much. i've, for a while now, been become aware of my empathy, and also my physic sensativity - which sometimes is a very nasty burden, but i know it's all what it is, and that i just got to do what i'm meant to do, and that is to love and love and love. any words you might be able to share? i'm so so grateful for everything you've said already, and what's to come* they mean so much to me. i know i have a big change of lifestyle coming up, if i want to respect God how i know i'm supposed to, and if you can help at all, i dont think there are the words created that can convey how much i'd appreciate =). much much love, ~Ethan

 

Correction: Hinduism never ever states that you need to be reincarnated several times to reach nirvana. Enlightenement is described in scriptures as nityopalabdha - available every single instant.

 

hi ethan,
your so blessed to have that experience, but it sounds like you are blessed more than you can ever imagine. it is always nice, within this enormous vast incomprehensible web of life and many different realities we find ourselves apart of, to find ourselves fitting into it in a way so fulfilling. sometimes we stumble in, unintentionally, and we chose our ways even unconsciously sometimes and just make it in by a dash, with even the smallest decision holding your very destiny in its hands. but most often, love is what is guarenteed to take us there, where we truly want to be....

you seem like a very developed soul, to have had this experience. it would seem many people only recieve this type of experience with psychadelics, and then it takes them even furthur from the true oneness of everything now that they have cheated and broken the flow of things and even gods flow, to get high. or maybe you have done psychadelics too, who knows...
i get the impression you are a very old soul, older than you know, and if you think about this idea, i think it will really resonate with your heart. what else could explain why some people just get it, and others dont and just cannot break through no matter what? you must have good karma, but now it is still ultimatley up to you, to continue to develop and evolve consciously, and love to the best of your ability, which includes EVERY little decision you make. from what you eat in the morning to what you wear, to what you say and most importantly, think, percieve and feel. its up to you to raise your vibration and evolve, and help this world raise their vibration and evolve too, and it sounds like your doing JUST that. so keep it up, i would send you blessings but it doesnt sound like you really need them : )

 

hey stanger =P

thank you so much for everything you said. yeah, things are definitely becoming everything they seemed they would for so long - although everything is so so so damn new, and a bit scary, it almost seems like it fits together so damn perfectly =P i always learned that things always always do, and everything is meant to happen, but goodness... before, with everything happening how it's uspposed to happen, i just sat back and took the river for a ride, always... now, it seems like the choices i make are going to 'make or break' my relationship with whom i shouldn't say because i dont know. i just knwo i love him so sosososososo much, and never want to turn my back on him - never want to treat him wrong. i'm just afraid, because right now, i dont know if something is going to turn it's back on me or what, because i see a MAJOR change in life coming up - it's already been knockin at the door, and i've been listening and surrendering to it's will, but the other night i got high with some friends, and i feel like i'm not keeping the right faith. i dont know what i should listen to and what is a part of this beautiful insanity =\. i just want to love, that's ALL, but things are more confusing now then ever. but one thing i learned that one indescribable night is to not get entangled in thought, or even expectation, and to let things be - why aren't i? i dont know. should i be afraid of something running away from me? or is all i'm saying definitely just insanity =\. much much much muchhhhhhh love stranger - and anyone else who can share some words. thank you all sososo much. ~Ethan

 

it still kinda feels like i need blessings, even though i should let those thoughts melt away =P
this morning, i made myself a sandwich on my way to school, and sat there and looked at it like i shouldn't be eating it, then i read this message and you say "even the things you eat in the morning" =P. the first thought that popped into my head was 'you shouldn't be eating right now', but goodness, i dont know if i'm supposed to stop eating all together - if it was the meat - or the time of day, or what. these bloody signs are just ridiculous, maybe i am. i know each of our stories is so damn unique, and dont know much of the syncretism between each of our stories (even though we're all truly One), but is there anything you can share with me pertaining to changes in lifestyle you think await me? before you suggest, know that i dont 'accept nor 'reject anything you say, always chew with a grain of salt =P so never hesitate to share anything, please, you might think i dont need a blessing, but goodness, i do need some direction (or is it that i just need to intune to the direction that's screaming at me, i dont know - but i do =P). one thing that is scaring me more then ever is that i have a gut feeling that i'm supposed to 'go home'. i know my heart's dream is on a commune, on a farm with loving folks, but i'm in the middle of a college semester, and goodness knows i've been dealing with some sorrow being here, knowing it's not where i want to be, but i'm on full scholarships, and see the possibility of me becoming a teacher one day very very very strong - after all my traveling and freedom... what scares me the most is that something very special will leave me behind if i dont jump on the first train back home =\\\\\\. will god wait for me another month? or is this something i should truly let go of. much love, ethan

 

Who is debating? I thought we were sharing thoughts.

Your story was made up to make a point. I don't see any harm in it.

Your statement, "If all is interpendendant [then] what is the need for miracles?," bears further elucidtion, though. One can just as easily ask, if we are interdependent then why do some die young and some die old?, why are there sane and insane people?, why do some get sick and others are always healty?, why is there good and evil?, etc.

Are we truly interdependent? Is this the scientific chaotic model (The Bufferfly Effect) at work?, where it is postulated that the beating of a butterfly's wings can cause a huricane?

An example of a minor miracle: Buddha supossedly emanated a Buddha energy field. Those who got close to him were able to detect this energy field. How can science explain that? I have been able to detect people drawing life force energy and others emanating life force energy. Is that a miracle or just human "nature"?

But yes, I understand what you mean by being interdependent, but such an idea probably belongs to higher spiritual realms, to loftier ideals, best seen from the perspective of someone who has transcended duality and is Enlightened. Then again, it just may be a rationalisation.

I feel that your contention is based upon Judeo-Christian principles, that there must be a diety to perform miracles. My stance is that miracles can happen through our own power, that both the mind and the body can perform miracles.

Otherwise, how is one to explain Enlightenment? That in itself is a miracle. If it is a matter of "normalcy," then how is one to explain Enlightenment when it is so infrequent? But chances are that most people think of miracles as spontaneous healings. Like I said, it depends on how you define miracles.

 

As I understand it, Buddha offered nothing more or less than a way to know, directly, the essence of reality. Once one does this, then one can properly respond to the question of God's existence.

 

Sabbê sattâ kammassakâ kamma dâyâdâ kamma yônî kamma bandhû kamma patisarañâ Yang kammang karissanti kalyânang vâ pâpakang vâ tassa dâyâdâ bhavissanti


All living beings are the owners of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related through their actions, and live dependent on their actions. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir

 

In other words, you have to stand on your own feet no matter how tall your grandfather was.

 

It is possible to stand on anothers foot.

 

Yes. Your relationship to the universe (or if you'd rather, God, reality, all of this, everything, the Tao, etc.) is, by definition, yours and the universe's.

The entirety of your experience is identical to your relationship to the universe. All rewards and punishments, all joy and suffering, all you know and all you don't, all you love and all you don't, all love and all non-love, IS your relationship to the universe (or if you'd rather, God, reality, all of this, everything, the Tao, etc.).

It may resemble, exactly, anyone else's relationship, but it is yours (and the universe's) to realize and maintain as wisely as you are able.

Simple, yes?

 

I have the idea that existence...has layers... on the one layer... you are a person...a personality...a human being..on another layer..you are all human beings...all earth all sky all matter...all thoughts....all of everything you see.

On another level you're the creator and desinger and spirit. But thats maybe alevel too high for us...narrow inded mortals..adn so we talk about god, and worshiping our creator....I also understand what worship and humilty feels like...awe, aspiration, gratefulness...thats all holy attitudes...that we have...for 'ourself'

but how to actualise THAT.. is quite a task...especially consdering what we teach each other... god. to me, is a word without meaning...infact the meaning that word has to be...is exploitation and control..beucase thats what people use the word 'god' for....if we rather looked within and found our inner greatness, holiness and spirit..we wouldnt tell other people who god is..or where to find him..or what he has done, orr decided..becuase the inner spirit speaks in different ways....unique ways to unique beings...and so thats our personal discovery... i take the buddha as an example of what can be recognised withing ever human being.... and if he said, there is njo god.... thats becuase he is saying....all that exists, is within himself... becuase he didnt belive in god didnt make him obstnaite or arrogant..he was very very humble...so its not a 'bad idea' to say god doesnt exist... its just an idea...and was his personal attitude and revelation... God to me...is my higher mind....that gudes me...and im not able to be totally aware of that higher mind becuase im afraid of it. WHJy am i afraid of my higher mind???, becuase conditioning has taught me to fear god...what is there to fear about my higher mind???, it is a spiritual blessing and holy guidance...but the word 'god' has so much fear...and control entwined with its meaning..that i would be much better offf..to refeer to there being no god.... and lidten instead to my higher mind... whichb could well ossibly be..the mind of 'god'. But not a god i would fear... rather a teacher i would respect and pay attentiopn to with gratitude.