CAMPBELL34 VS. LIBERTINE :The War To Settle The Score...

Well you know, the Pharisees said the same thing about Jesus, after He healed a a man on the Sabbath Day. Yet Jesus told the Pharisees that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man. Jesus pointed out, that Temple needs outweigh Sabbath laws. He also spoke of extreme hunger, and human needs outweighing ceremonial rules. I work for a Christian hospital, and it falls under human needs. I'm sure Jesus will not hold it against me. Yet I'm sure there are a few Pharisees out there, that will.

 

Well Libertine, you say that prophecy is in every camp. The problem is, most of them are false, where as Bible prophecies are true. So my question to you is, could you present me with prophecies from some other source other than the Bible, which will demonstrate for us, that the Bible is not so special?

 

its crazy, but my preacher always says, "we arent suppose to work on sundays", but yet every sunday after church me and my family all go out to eat with him and his. its Hypocrisy out the ass!!!

 

I've pointed out various false Biblical prophecies, and none of them have been accurately refuted (though lame attempts have been made). So your statement here is without substance.

And, Nostradamus has various prophecies not Bible-related. Have you heard of his prediction that a great ship, the Titan, will sink by striking an iceberg on its maiden voyage? Sounds familliar, doesn't it ...

 

Actually I don't believe the story about the Titan was a prophecy from Nostradamus. I believe it was from a more recent author, who wrote a story about a cruse ship sinking when it struck an iceberg. The story was written I believe about 12 years before the Titanic was built. Yet, the story was very similar to what actually happen. But, the story was not 100% accurate, even though it was similar. According to the Bible, and prophecy from God, must be 100% accurate.
And if you have a false prophecy from the Bible please show me, I would love to see it. I have found with most false prophecy claims, that most declare the prophecy false, before reading the fine print, or considering what the chapter is actually saying. And I see this kind of thing all the time.

 

Psalm 14:1

 

They have discovered human remains inbeded in coal and rock. The coal according to those who believe in evolution, would be about 100 million years old. These discoveries have been made in a number of areas around the
world. The scientest don't even want to look or consider this evidence. They have know about it for years, but it would throw off the whole Theory of Evolution, so they have ignore this evidence. In their minds, Evolution must be protected no matter what evidence surfaces. All theories must agree with Evolution, and if they don't, then all other theories must change. Up to a couple of years ago, science stated that soft tissue could not last beyond 10,000 years. But when they discovered dinosour bones with soft tissue, rather than go with their theory, which would of confirmed what Creation Scientist have stated about the age of dinosours, they quickly changed their theory on soft tissue. Now they say soft tissue can last 70 million years. Evolution has become a modern day shell game, and to many scientist have made a good living, pushing this lie for a long time.

 

I'm short on time here, but let me take the first one. God stated that Adam would die in the day that he ate the apple. Yet he lived for another 900 years. Well if you had studied the New Testament, you would of understood, that one day with God, is 1,000 years, and a 1,000 years is one day. God's statement was true. It was your lack of knowledge, that was in error. And as you go through the scriptures, this is what you will discover. You need to study the Scriptures, if you care about the truth.

 

Essential Correctional Comment ~ Campbell34 is altering OT text to suit the NT jesus lie.
KJV Genesis 3:3 "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."
No mention of time, minutes, hours, days, months, years.

 

Here's the bottom line:

CAMPBELL34 can't offer any objective evidence other than his anecdotal stories and his "prophecies" bullshit (Nostradamus, Sylvia Browne, The Bible, etc...) which the hundreds of denominations ALL disagree over the meanings. It's funny, really. Go to a "prophecy" meeting and invite a Southern Baptist, a Pentecostal, a Methodist, a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, a Catholic, a JW, and a Mormon and a Rabbi and ask them all about your "accurate" prophecies-- ALL VARIOUS "INTERPRETATIONS" of the same thing.

Secondly, SEAHORSE seems to think she can see a "big picture" (as do most Christians) and ERISE says all science has is "theories". So what does religion have?!? Um... "INTERPRETATIONS"!? In other words, a lot of hype and guesswork built on their fantasies and delusions with ZERO evidence.

No objective proof of "God"? No objective "God"! Christianity is dead. Good riddance!

 

i didnt say I could see a big picture, i said GOD could. sheesh like as if

 

How do you KNOW there is even a "God" to know this?

You don't. You assume.

 

Campbell...Scientific methods for dating geologic strata and remains of ancient life don't have any more intrinsic relationship to Darwin's theories than a shovel. These methods are simply tools that yield data. All the data says is that according to particular scientific dating methods, the coal and remains appear to be 100 million years old. If one wants to interpret the data as proof or disproof of Darwin's theories, it's their call. This particular data could also be interpreted as strongly suggesting that the earth and human life are much older than the 6,000 years claimed by "creation science", whether you link it to Darwinian evolution or not.

 

"One day with God is 1,000 years, and 1,000 years is a day with God."

Surely, Adam ate the apple, and then fled from God. That was one day which he spent WITHOUT God. Including all of the subsequent 900 days.

For a human, a day is 24 hours. He lived far beyond that. Whether God's days are 1,000 years or not is irrelevant.

 

Campbell,

You write,

Parsing and commenting:

From my awareness earth strata is very consistent in terms of layer definition and dating, and I have not seen you offer references or proper confirmation of your claims of refutation of The Theory of Evolution. Through the years there have been various claims, most often by 'Creationists,' that have been made in refutation of the core claims of The Theory of Evolution however none of these claims have been, thus far, able to 'shake' the evidential foundations upon which evolution theroy is built.

For some clarification, following I direct your attention to a basic definition of evolution theory.

In biology, evolution is the process by which populations of organisms acquire and pass on novel traits from generation to generation, affecting the overall makeup of the population and even leading to the emergence of new species.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

And following I point you to a typical refutation of core of the The Theory of Evolution.

We, creationists, are actually the ones standing on the side of the scientific evidence. Evolutionist, I am sorry to report, routinely hide from the full spectrum of scientific evidence and logic – particularly when evolutionary beliefs are challenged in any way. You’ll have to answer to God someday anyway; so do the logical thing now and learn about all the solid evidence which shows your beliefs to be false.

soruce: http://www.creationism.org/articles/DiscoverOpenLetter.htm


The Theory of Evolution is, thus far, well supported by the available evidence; questions based on unconfirmed claims do not constitute cause to reject the theroy and questions based on comfirmed evidence would be given 'weight' in terms of potential impact on the theory.

Certainly many questions remain open relative to hypotheses connected with the core of evolution theory however unresolved issues based on confirmed evidence of this type do not constitute refutation of The Theory of Evolution as a whole. Theories are constantly being modified, and less often replaced, in light of unexplained credible evidence however in the case of Creationist claims there has been no credible evidence, and associated hypothesis, offered. Creationist beliefs are simply beliefs and have not been in any way substantiated by credible evidence.

Given the above, I applaud free-thinking and the search to explain intuitive awarenesses and beliefs; however in forming such a hypothesis one must be able to communicate that hypothesis and be able to properly communicate the observations of phenomena upon which the hypothesis formed. You and other Creationists, to my awareness, have not fulfilled this essentail requirement.

I also point you to the following link that addresses,

This page addresses some of the "coal" related strata claims that your refer to however I am still searching for a critical analysis of the "human skull found in strata conatining coal" claim,

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

and I believe that the following link may be of interest,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation-evolution_controversy .


You state,

Actually, good scientists do consider all credible evidence.

Yes, some scientists can, and have, acted in ways that are 'unscientific' especially when their egos cause problems in considering issues objectively. Scientists, like all of us, are human and are capable of having 'ego problems' that can affect their work. However, this does not change the reality of the rules of scientific method. Can you point to specific significant instances where scientists have not properly consided evidence [related to what we are considering here, i.e. credible refutation of the core tenants of The Theory of Evolution] ?

What theories, are you referring to Creationism as "a theory" ?

Campbell in the name of creativity and discovery please show some humility and openly question issues, this does not mean that your deepest beliefs and insights are incorrect; many people including Scientists and Creationists lack key manifest emotional capacities that can affect openly considering particular issues. Have you thought that maybe your inner awarenesses actually lead, that is provide a path, to important answers whether or not, initially, the connected answers appear or are in-fact correct or incorrect ? This is very important. Guaranteed that there are many folks with profound insight and awareness which are not communicated and or verified by others. But regardless of the ability to communicate externally it is wise to be humble, to use honest self-review and to communicate internally with integrity; and this will tend to reflect to varying degrees externally. In scientific method, one must present evidence, this is to say observed phenomena that can be properly verified and, then, provide a proper prehypothesis.

You write,

I have in a general sense already addressed the modifcation of theories but, here, specifically, this relates to the discovery [as I recall] that encapsulation due mineralization can and does occur. It appears clear that soft tissue can be preserved for very long periods of time [millions of years] by cause of particular natural processes and hypothetically by use of proper technique.

As my Grandfather, bless his soul, a deeply spiritual and honest man who was part of the NIST (NBS) staff for many decades, used to say, "Hogwash." The word "lie" implies that there is "intention to deceive" and that is a strong charge Campbell. I have not made any such charge about you, sometimes people are just mistaken or are in error, and it is important that we teach people to indentify their own self-deception and that in relation to this that knowing, and seeking, the truth is inherently good.


David


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the whole point to God's existence and ours, is LOVE. He wasnt bored or lonely or needy.

But He did desire something. Something to have relationship with. something to love and to be loved by. Otherwise Him existing, just being there, all perfect twiddling his thumbs would be absolutely pointless.

"the will to choose our master", as Hippielngstcking put it, is the most loving and perfect gift he could have given us.

Without the ability to choose, our existence would be missing it's vital other half, and would lack all sense of true meaning.

 

I choose NO MASTER. I am not too fond of slavery. I'm an abolitionist!

Isn't that beautiful?

 

no, it's not beautiful. Cause no matter which way you choose, you are serving a master, whether you believe in that master or not.

 

#1- Prove it.

#2- You are forcing your theory down my throat by claiming objective knowledge, of which you have offered ZERO evidence to support such a sweeping proclamation.

 

Libertine,

Yes, and this is how to make a strong and good society. People are unique and highly varied; and, the concept of trying control others based on irrational fear is a very dangerous aspect of our world. And given the technologic power now had, and soon to be had, whether or not people think primarily as individuals and work together in truly civil discourse and existence will determine whether or not we, humans, will survive. These "accept our way or you as an individual will be injured or hurt by 'our God'" threads and many of the end the "end of the world threads" strongly reflect fear of differences in people; condeming and waring against others because "they don't go for what's in your book" and so that means "curse and burn and destroy"; fear of free-thought. We are different and that is what life about, and if any one group that propogates such thought and action were to eliminate all others then they would eventually turn to battle and destruction within their own because of fear of differences; because this problem transcends the apparent "remedy."


David


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