Old Testament - Epic of Gilgamesh

The old testament has been proven to be directly linked to the Epic of Gilgamesh, an ancient work of fiction. such as: noah's ark- there is a story in the epic of gilgamesh about a man who's "world" (i.e. village) was flooded, so he had to build an ark. so why do people believe in something that is a proven work of fiction?! im sorry if this is in the wrong place, im alittle bit out of it.

 

very little about the bible is original
the whole virgin thing came from a hindu myth or some of that nature

 

Not to mention many coverups, including the fact that Jesus had a wife and daughter Sarah. Read the dead sea scrolls/translations.

 

i dont think the bible ever gave enough details about jesus life to say it covered up that he might or might have not had a wife. it just didnt mention it.
Kinda like when you meet a hot chic in a bar and you just dont mention you have a girlfriend as you lay her out in the back seat of your car.

 

Theres no way you can convince me that, we live in the same world as the bible. Maybe metaphorically but. beast and angles. Iv'e never seen thum

 

hebrew was past along through oral tradition for a long time before any of it was written. it is possible that the writings with similar stories came from that oral tradition, not that the bible was copied from other works. its a possibility.

 

How can you be so sure that it is fiction? Could it be because you believe the Bible to be fiction, so thinking that the Epic of Gilgamesh is the precursor to the Bible then it must also be fiction. That may be faulty reasoning. But that's okay, most of us think this way; we all seek rationalisations.

 

i find this very interesting.
from wikipedia online:

The Epic of Gilgamesh

1.Introducing Gilgamesh of Uruk, the greatest king on earth, two-thirds god and one-third human, the strongest super-human who ever existed. But his people complain that he is too harsh, so the sky-god Anu creates the wild-man Enkidu, a worthy rival as well as distraction. Enkidu is tamed by the seduction of a female priestess/ harlot Shamhat.

2.Enkidu challenges Gilgamesh. After a mighty battle, Gilgamesh breaks off from the fight (this portion is missing from the Standard Babylonian version but is supplied from other versions) . Gilgamesh proposes an adventure in the cedar forest to kill a demon.

3.Preparation for the adventure of the cedar forest; many give support, including the sun-god Shamash.

4.Journey of Gilgamesh and Enkidu to the cedar forest.

5.Gilgamesh and Enkidu, with help from Shamash, kill Humbaba, the demon guardian of the trees, then cut down the trees which they float as a raft back to Uruk.

6.Gilgamesh rejects the sexual advances of the goddess Ishtar. Ishtar asks her father, the sky-god Anu, to send the "Bull of Heaven" to avenge the rejected sexual advances. He does. Gilgamesh and Enkidu kill the bull.

7.The gods decide that somebody has to be punished for killing the Bull of Heaven, and it is Enkidu. Enkidu becomes ill and describes the Netherworld as he is dying.

8.Lament of Gilgamesh for Enkidu.

9.Gilgamesh sets out to avoid Enkidu's fate and makes a perilous journey to visit Utnapishtim and his wife, the only humans to have survived the Great Flood who were granted immortality by the gods, in the hope that he too can attain immortality. Along the way, Gilgamesh encounters the "ale-wife" Siduri who attempts to dissuade him from his quest.

10.Completion of the journey, by punting across the Waters of Death with Urshanabi, the ferryman.

11.Gilgamesh meets Utnapishtim, who tells him about the great flood and gives him two chances for immortality. First he tells Gilgamesh that if he can stay awake for six days and seven nights he will become immortal. Gilgamesh fails, but Utnapishtim decides to give him another chance. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh that if he can obtain a plant from the bottom of the sea and eat it he will become immortal. Gilgamesh obtains the plant, but it is stolen by a snake. Gilgamesh, having failed both chances, returns to Uruk, where the sight of its massive walls provoke Gilgamesh to praise this enduring work of mortal men.

 

Comparing the stories
The Chaldean Flood Tablets from the city of Ur in what is now Southern Iraq, describe how the Bablylonian God Ea had decided to eliminate humans and other land animals with a great flood which was to become "the end of all flesh". He selected Ut-Napishtim, to build an ark to save a few humans, and samples of other animals.

The Babylonian text "The Epic of Galgamesh" 1,8 and the Hebrew story are essentially identical with about 20 major points in common. Their texts are obviously linked in some way. Either:

-Genesis was copied from an earlier Babylonian story, or
-The Galgamesh myth was copied from an earlier Hebrew story, or
-Both were copied from a common source that predates them both.

In both the Genesis and Galgamesh stories:

-The Genesis story describes how mankind had become obnoxious to God; they were hopelessly sinful and wicked. In the Babylonian story, they were too numerous and noisy.
-The Gods (or God) decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds.
-The Gods (or God) knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah.
-The Gods (or God) ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew).
-The hero initially complained about the assignment to build the boat
-The ark would be sealed with pitch.
-The ark would have with many internal compartments
-It would have a single door
-It would have at least one window.
-The ark was built and loaded with the hero, a few other humans, and samples from all species of other land animals.
-A great rain covered the land with water.
-The mountains were initially covered with water.
-The ark landed on a mountain in the Middle East.
-The hero sent out birds at regular intervals to find if any dry land was in the vicinity.
-The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return.
-The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice.
-God (or the Gods in the Epic of Gilgamesh) smelled the roasted meat of the -sacrifice.
-The hero was blessed.
-The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well, because he promised never to do it again.

The were a number of differences between the two stories:

-Noah received his instructions directly from Jehovah; Ut-Napishtim received them indirectly during a dream.
-Noah's ark was 3 stories high and rectangular in shape. Two estimated dimensions are 547 x 91 ft. and 450 x 75 ft. The Babylonian ark was 6 stories high and square.
-Ut-Napishtim invited additional people on board: a pilot and some skilled workmen.
-Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat; Ut-Napishtim'sat on Mt. Nisir; these locations are both in the Middle East, and are located few hundred miles apart
-In the Bible, some of the water emerged from beneath the earth. And the rains from above lasted for 40 days and nights. A 40 day interval often symbolized a period of judgment in the Hebrew Scriptures. 2 In the Babylonian account, the water came only in the form of rain, and lasted only 6 days.
-Noah released a raven once and a dove twice; Ut-Napishtim released three birds: a dove, swallow and raven.


religioustolerance.org

 

Ah this is one of those things that bugs me

what seperates the bible form all the rest/

Really arnt all religons that teach love form god?

But the bible says no but thats just it talking

As you can see I really a confused

I have read Gilgamesh before.Nice little myth.

 

hippygirl

Is not the story.....gilgamesh and his love for his brother?

Occam

What is all this old testament crap?

 

No its more about Gilgamesh's search for immortality.

 

Anyways, Shamhat is the interesting one for now.

http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/gods/ladies/shamhat.html

 

occam,

yes, it's about the friendship between gilgamesh and enkidu; it's also about gilgamesh's search for immortality. it's just interesting how the story very obviously parallels parts of the old testament. i don't know much more about these similarities, and i haven't read gilgamesh since high school. the old testament may have adopted the gilgamesh story, which is generally believed to have been written around 2000bce, while the story of exodus is believed to have occurred around 1000bce (as far as i understand.) in particular, the story of a large flood in both stories raises obvious questions about the source of the later writings. there's a book i want to get called 'epic of gilgamesh and ot parallels'... i'm a nerd for historical sleuth work.

placebo would probably have been better off placing this thread in the christianity forum, where it might have generated a little more interest since people there believe the worldwide flood story to be historical fact.


ps. hi kharakov! i haven't seen you around here for ages!



peace,

 

Comparing the stories
The Chaldean Flood Tablets from the city of Ur in what is now Southern Iraq, describe how the Bablylonian God Ea had decided to eliminate humans and other land animals with a great flood which was to become "the end of all flesh". He selected Ut-Napishtim, to build an ark to save a few humans, and samples of other animals.

The Babylonian text "The Epic of Galgamesh" 1,8 and the Hebrew story are essentially identical with about 20 major points in common. Their texts are obviously linked in some way. Either:

-Genesis was copied from an earlier Babylonian story, or
-The Galgamesh myth was copied from an earlier Hebrew story, or
-Both were copied from a common source that predates them both.
nitemarehippygirl


Since Abraham was from Ur, and also, much of the OT was written down during or after the Babylonian captivity, the chances that the stories are connected are pretty good, imho.
Also, over 70 different cultures have traditional historical recountings of a great flood.
My favourite source of flood info is a book by two scientists, Allen and Delair, "Cataclism: The day the earth nearly died", which gives lots of scientific evidence of a global event around 9 500 BC. It also shows how their findings correlate to the ancient accounts, which they do in many ways.

 

wow, thank you for the info, blackguard.. i'll see if i can find that book anywhere. i didn't know that so many separate cultures recall a great flood; covering which areas of the world?

 

well, i found this...

Archeologists have long sought to prove that the great flood described in Genesis and in the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh was a historic event. Columbia University geologists Ryan and Pitman weigh in with a highly conjectural theory that seems as good as any other, if no better.

Around 5600 B.C., they maintain, Noah's flood occurred when rising Mediterranean waters roared through the narrow Bosporus Strait, transforming the Black Sea, then a freshwater lake, into a bloated saltwater body. Taking a cue from Australian prehistorian Gordon Childe, who posited that Europe's first farmers came from Asia, the authors contend that the Black Sea at the time of the alleged flood was a fertile oasis, a cultural magnet where diverse peoples (farmers, animal breeders, artisans), exchanged techniques and possibly genes. They point to the sudden appearance in Europe, shortly after 5600 B.C., of "outsider" tribes, advanced farmers who, the theory goes, were fleeing the flooded Black Sea region.

Other flood refugees, in this scenario, migrated to Russia's steppes, Anatolia, Mesopotamia and the Middle East, preserving memory of the catastrophe in mythic and oral traditions later enshrined on clay tablets and ultimately in the Bible.

Ryan and Pitman base their theory partly on radiocarbon dating of marine sediments that they collected in 1993 during a Black Sea expedition and partly on Ice Age climatic patterns, modern linguists' quest for a proto-Indo-European mother tongue and genetic studies of population migrations over the millennia. Their complicated detective tale is intriguing, but much more solid evidence would be required to convince skeptics.

Excerpted from Noah's Flood : The New Scientific Discoveries About The Event That Changed History
Copyright 1998 Reed Business Information, Inc

 

Zecharia Sitchin's work "Earth Chronicles" contains probably the best material available vis-a-vis Gilgamesh & the OT, which supports what NMHG has posted.
Here's a time-line postulation that's interesting ~
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/zchron.html