Black holes? and time travel

Black Holes

When stars that are more than four times the mass of our sun reach the end of their life and have burned up all of their fuel, they collapse under the pressure of their own weight. This implosion creates "black holes," which have gravitational fields so strong that even light cannot escape. Anything that comes in contact with a black hole's event horizon will be sucked in. The event horizon is the boundary of a black hole at which nothing can escape.

You can think of the shape of a black hole as similar to an ice cream cone. It is large on top and tapers into a point, called a singularity. At the singularity, the laws of physics cease to exist and all matter is crushed beyond recognition. This kind of non-rotating black hole is called a Schwarzschild black hole, named after the German astronomer Karl Schwarzschild.

Another type of black hole, called a Kerr hole, is also theoretically possible. Kerr holes are rotating black holes that could be used as portals for time travel or travel to parallel universes. In 1963, New Zealand mathematician Roy Kerr proposed the first realistic theory for a rotating black hole. In his theory, dying stars would collapse into a rotating ring of neutrons that would produce sufficient centrifugal force to prevent the formation of a singularity. Since the black hole would not have a singularity, Kerr believed it would be safe to enter it without being crushed by the infinite gravitational force at its center.

If Kerr holes do exist, it might be possible to pass through them and exit out of a "white" hole. A white hole would have the reverse action of a black hole. So, instead of pulling everything into its gravitational force, it would use some sort of exotic matter with negative energy to push everything out and away from it. These white holes would be our way to enter other times or other worlds.

Given the little we know about black holes, Kerr holes may possibly exist. However, physicist Kip Thorne of the California Institute of Technology believes that the laws of physics prevent such a formation. He says there is no such way to enter and exit a black hole, and that anything attempting to enter a black hole will be sucked in and destroyed before it even reaches the singularity.











Problems with Time Travel
If we are ever able to develop a workable theory for time travel, we would open up the ability to create very complicated problems called paradoxes. A paradox is defined as something that contradicts itself. Here are two common examples:

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you could travel back to a time before you were born. The mere fact that you could exist in a time before you were born creates a paradox. If you were born in 1960, how could you exist in 1955?

Possibly the most famous paradox is the grandfather paradox. What would happen if a time traveler went back and killed one of his or her ancestors before the traveler was born? If the person killed his or her grandfather, then how could that person be alive to go back and kill his or her grandfather? If we could change the past, it would create an infinite number of paradoxes.

Another theory regarding time travel brings up the idea of parallel universes, or alternative histories. Let's say that you do travel back to meet your grandfather when he was a boy. In the theory of parallel universes, you may have traveled to another universe, one that is similar to ours, but has a different succession of events. For instance, if you were to travel back in time and kill one of your ancestors, you've only killed that person in one universe, which is no longer the universe that you exist in. And if you then try to travel back to your own time, you may end up in another parallel universe and never be able to get back to the universe you started in.

The idea here is that every action causes the creation of a new universe, and that there are an infinite number of universes that exist. When you killed your ancestor, you created a new universe, a universe that was identical to your own up until the time you changed the original succession of events.

Confused yet? Welcome to the world of time travel. Just imagine how complicated the ticket prices will be.

 

it would be impossible to go back in time, because nature, unlike philosophers does not allow paradoxes. if it is possible to move in time, it would only be possible to move forward.

 

you should read up on that, i'm a kind of believe that thinks anything is possible...

 

Tripper

Tippler engines...
Theory?
Going 'back' in time.

Occam postulates there is no PAST
to go back to.

Then again..he knows very little.
But as he thinks time is MOTION.
And motion is change.
Then there is no past other than agreed memory and the premise for the present.

The future however..is what we make it. As a concept NOW.
As an existent now. when it happens.

past and future exist as concepts.
The NOW is all that exists.
Reality
is the now.

Occam

 

To travel "backward" in time is to decrease entropy.

Ashes may theoretically be reassembled in to there pre-fire state of "wood", but this would require the use of energy and therefore incresaes entropy (just as occam's "motion" does)- the definition of the one way march of time.

To "travel" backward in time (or, more approriately, to experience time flowing toward decreased Entropy) requires that energy be given off with none being used in the process. In other words, the creation of Energy- a no-no.
Hence the nesscities for the fantastic notions previously posted, i.e. "parrell" or "multi-" Universes.
-----
Concievably, by appropriate application of energy, a method to move at an accelerated rate into the future may be possible.

 

Gecko

[occams 2 cents]

How about applying a one G thrust to the rear end of a star ship for as long as we so wish?
[application of energy]
We accellerate to near C
And invoke heavy einsteinian time dilation.
Curve our trajectory in a great circle
and return to earth..
A few years have passed for the ship crew.
Hundreds for those on earth..

This is the exact premise for the movie 'planet of the apes'
It is based on science fact.
Einsteinian time dilation [reduction in the rate of motion] is
a reproducable phenomena. Cyclotron stuff.
it's called a 'slow time machine'.

We can make them now.
The difference in position between the equator and the poles
IS one.
Humans at the equator live a different time [rate] to those at the poles.
dependent on rotational/planetary/solar deltaV

Occam

 

.

 

Copy/Paste i like your style

 

Really? Have you MET any time travelers from the past? Have you ever HEARD of any Time Travelers? I didn't think so. Or maybe you have? I have a theory, that the GRAY aliens we've all heard about, are ACTUALY, Humans from a few thousand years in our own future, who came back to STOP whatever Nuclear event that made them go underground in the first place. (Thus, the colorless Skin, and eyes with NO white part. The bodies are emaciated from lack of protien.) We've all read Science Fiction about so called WWIII which is supposed to destroy life as we know it... Think about it. It's possible...Look at that base in Colorado. The one UNDER the mountain?

 

occam,
that's correct, but it's a one way trip.

got to admit a 100 year jump into the future might be cool!

But no coming back.

For good fiction on the subject try 3001 by Clarke (much better read than 2001) or The End of Eternity by Asimov.

The first book is whatever happen to the lost astronaut in 2001? and the latter is what we think of as time travel- the ability to step out of and into time anywhen.

 

as far as i know.....time does not exist...that's why it's called a dimesion...we put a name called TIME to something cause it just seemed to work.....like maths and things.... but in its purest form time does not exist.......

soooooooo if you wanted to time travel...(which is possible, we just have not figured out how yet....) just explaining here..... that time although non existent is a permanent and a whole thing (a dimesion)....meaning that things are going on in this non existent time dimension....you would have to find another dimension that does not exist such as nothingness....or consciousness, and then when you are in the whole timelessness, nothingness, consciousenss then you should by my NUTTY theory be able to see/be/feel/experience it all happening at once or at whatever sequence or point you wanted to dip into.....

Confused ?

try thinking of everything that "evolves" as a learning curve for a dimension called consiousness...whose trait is to "LEARN, KNOW, and UNDERSTAND...

OK...so I think that everything....EVERYTHING..., has oozing through it's entire sub-atomic particles a dimension thing called consiousness....that the inherent trait of that dimesion, consciousness, is to learn, know and understand....

OK, so I believe also in the begining that there was nothingness, timelessness and consciousness, and because consciousness wanted to know what it was aware and consciouss of, it somehow managed to investigate nothingness and timelessness so minutely that it either "upset the applecart" or deliberately created the universe/universes...and i think we are all part of consciousness's enquiry into what everthing is.....

And they say consciousness is not a dimension because thay have no way of creating an experiment to prove it.....yet i believe we are the experiment...a never ending one.....

Oh boy...nuts!...but "happy nutty"

strawpuppy

 

At it's simpilest, Time is a measure of the increase in Entropy.-----
THE MOTH ON THE EDGE OF AN ASH TRAY NEXT TO A SMOLDERING ROACH. THE PROFESSOR INTERRUPTS THE MOTH LECTURING ITSELF.


“…and therefore it is self evident that the fundamental concept expressed requires the consideration of the dynamic aspects of the basic nature of the essential structure upon which the entire theory rests.”

“Excuse me, I’m lost. Where am I?”

“Haven’t you been paying attention?” asked the moth, INHALING DEEPLY AS A SWATH OF SMOKE ROLLED BY.

“Oh- yes, but…”

THE MOTH EXHALES A CLOUD THAT ENGULFS THE PROFESSOR.

“To begin with, it must be recognized that essentials elements of the basic theory of Here require the supposition that the static nature of where must intersect the dynamic nature of when at the most fundamental level in order to form the now. “

“Ah- then, When am I?” Ask The Professor, lost in a sea of smoke.

“Now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now…” the moth’s voice fades away.

THE SOUND OF FLAPPING WINGS.

 

i probably think anyway...

is there not an easier way of putting it ? (had to look into the dictionary, and then go "deepus thoughticus" on how it realted to "No time"....oh ahhh...measuring it.....OK

then re-read the prof and the moth 3 times for it to....(I think sink in)...

and so there we have all we can handle....Now, now, now, now.....

but that does not change my theory on "in the begining" timelessness, nothingness, and consciousness doing it all now, now, now.......

maybe i need to find another word for consciousness...methinks the word has connotations....to each his own...

 

As far as i can think, space exists in a dimension called nothingness.

Ughhh..i get tangled up...

Timelessness = a trait we can measure in a "Time" way

Nothingness = a trait we can measure in a "Space" way

Example...we can look at our watch to see what the time is, when there really is no time as such, we can say the universe is in space, when really, space is something in a dimension of nothingness....

I find the exciting bit is if you think of consciousness/AWARENESS as a dimension......co-existing with nothingness and timelessness....

I can only find these three real dimensions....maybe there are others but though I have tried, I cannot find any...any input/ideas appreciated.

By dimension I mean something that exists of itself entirely....just is....

Sound, light, energy ect...none of these as far as i can think could exist by themselves...
thanks for reading my post....appreciated

 

I really am very ignorant of academic "language"..if my terminolgy of "dimensions" is wrong..then maybe "an absolute" would be a better way to describe it...

As for "Nothingness"..when you talk about dimesional space and maths...well...what do you put your x, y and z's into....? There must be a place where you start...

What I am tryng to say is...there must be nothing in order for space to occupy it...otherwise it could not be...

And maths is another one of those like "time" non existent things....

But how marvelous it is.............

 

Seems like the concept of nothingness would apply to black holes? Perhaps they would be negative nothingness. But the medium of space itself is full of shit, all kinds of rays, waves, particles...Many theorists say that our local universe is finite, and we simply have chutes that lead to other bubbles with a local universe of thier own, and that these universes obey basic atomic thoery in the way they move around a nucleus....and perhaps the emptiness in between is sort of like cytoplasm.

 

I just love the images that pop into my head while I read these posts...

I think black holes are matter that is imploding to such a degree that "nothing can exist in there...

(WARNING, I'm going "nutty" here again)..

I'm still holding on to the theory that everything exists in nothingness, timelessness and consciousness.....I believe that when there was the absolute of nothingness, and timelessness, (before anything happened) there was also another absolute....(something like) Consciousness/Awareness....that this conscious/awareness by it's trait of wanting to know what it was conscious/aware of...created everything to understand it......

WARNING...completenut's now.........

I think black hole are awareness/consciousness enquiring into what happens if you take something and crush it so small that it ends up beccoming "minus nothing...or something like that...

Hell, maybe consciousness/awareness is still trying to find out what IT is...

there we come to us...and why we talk about GOD, souls and that something else that we can never put our finger on.....

The eternal quest to know and understand all..

​

 

consciousness/awareness created ALL to understand.....we included, I think we are part of a galatic 0 in the 101010101 in an absolute that is aware of everything, and being an absolute it can never (?) stop enquiring what it is aware of....that means all kinds of everything....NEVER ENDING...

 

We're just an "electron" in the galactic chemical equation? Obviously the universe isn't in Binary....but are you suggesting that we're part of a system, a collective conciousness that we can' percieve or comprehend?

 

I'm not sure...still pondering...
but as far as I have got..it makes sense..to me anyway...

Think about about evolution...survival of the fittest...why do things keep growing and changing, why is there that random gene in everything that is responsible for mutation, if perfection is the aim ?.....

Seems plausible that something like this pervades everything....just to know what it is....