gay is a illness its all in the mind

You might do well to remember that most psychology books for general psychology classes are just that, general. That might have been one persons therory or idea but does that make it an absulute truth, no. psychology can be very subjective some psychologists let their person beliefs color thier reasearch. If you look hard enough you can find "proof" anywhere.

 

Actually, the APA no longer considers homosexuality a disorder. They happen to be a group of psychologists, so that seems to mean that homosexuality has a certain psychological seal of approval. Given the way all too many people treat lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people, it's a surprise that so many of us are as well adjusted as we are.

Obviously, somebody is assuming that we all believe in God and that we all take the account of Genesis literally. Such is not the case.

For that matter, so what if God did create Adam and Eve? That doesn't mean that God only intended people to be like them. What race were they? Does that mean that people who aren't of the same racial group as Adam and Eve are somehow wrong or unnatural?

I've heard about Adam and Eve having two sons, Cain and Abel. One of them murdered the other. This doesn't sound like such a great role model. Who was Cain's wife? Wouldn't she have had to be Cain's sister? Would that mean that incest is part of God's plan? I have a difficult time accepting that. It seems quite possible that God must have created some more people besides Adam and Eve.

All in all, this post sounds like it belongs in a Christianity forum rather than a gay forum.

 

are you serious, i best tell some of my gay mates to go and see a shrink.
Maybe you should go and see a doctor and say that you are a marrow minded bitch?

 

Dont believe everything you read

 

AGAIN WITH NO PROOF!!! LITTLE MISSY, ARE YOU HEARING ME???!!!

Please site the psychology book and relevant pages/passages that back up your claim. Then stand by as others site references to other books to refute.

 

Athens is always central to our appreciation of Greek history but we can be seriously mistaken if we take homosexuality to be an Athenian habit or try to explain it in purely Athenian terms. Athens became more peaceful in the 7th and 5th centuries but this was not true of the Peloponnese and similarly there may have been democratisation of culture in Athens - but not in Sparta or Macedonia. There is in fact evidence that romantic eros was seen as homosexual all over Greece. Sparta, even with its relatively free women, had homosexual relationships built into the structure of the training all young Spartan men received . In other Dorian areas also homosexuality was widely accepted. Thebes saw in the 4th century the creation of a battalion of homosexual lovers - the Sacred Band. In Crete we have evidence of ritualised abduction of younger by older men. [6]

 

Homosexual eros was accepted throughout antiquity, in Rome as much as classical Athens. The reason for this acceptance was that previous generations had accepted it also. This is what makes the 7th and 6th centuries so important for it was then for the first time that a culture in which same sex relationships were celebrated grew up. That the archaic period provided the basis for later centuries does not mean that homosexuality was previously unknown, rather that we have no evidence.

 

Origins of cultural homosexuality are better found in the social life of the 7th and 6th centuries rather than in any historical event. Greece was more settled than in the 8th and early 7th centuries. We have evidence of a growing population - the number of graves in Attica increased six-fold [5]- and bigger cities. The position of women was down graded in cities where only men were citizens. In the cities new social settings grew up for men; in gymnasiums men wrestled and ran naked; the symposium or drinking party became a part of city life, and again it was men only. In this situation homosexuality came to the fore. This seems to have been a period of cultural openness and the Greeks had no revealed books to tell them that homosexuality was wrong. It is an oddity of our culture that men often refuse to acknowledge the beauty of another man. The Greeks had no such inhibitions. They were meeting each other daily in male only settings, women were less an less seen as emotional equals and there was no religious prohibition of the bisexuality every human being is physically equipped to express. At the same time there was an artistic flowering in both poetry and visual arts. A cultural nexus of art and homosexual eros was thus established and homosexuality became a continuing part of Greek culture.

 

The acme of homosexual love in Athens came about at the end of the Persistratid tyranny at Athens. It fell for a variety of reasons and there was certainly no immediate switch to democracy but in later Athenian history two lovers, Aristogeiton and Harmodios were given the credit of bringing down the tyrants. Thucydides makes it clear that what happened was that Hipparchus, the brother of the tyrant Hippias, was killed because he made a pass at Harmodios and when rejected proceeded to victimise his family [8]. Thucydides regards all this as slightly sordid, although it has been suggested his motives in rubbishing the tyrannicides was to promote the Alcmeonids as founders of Athenian democracy [9]. Whatever actually happened an extraordinary cult of the two lovers grew up in Athens with their descendants being given state honours such as front seats at the theatre even at the height of radical democracy when such honours were frowned upon. In Athens at least this cult was used repeatedly to give kudos to homosexual couples and what they could achieve for society.

 

The theme was exploited philosophically by Plato. In the Symposium he applies the terminology of procreation to homosexual love and says that, while it does not produce children it brings forth beautiful ideas, art and actions which were eternally valuable. Although Plato visualises relationships in lover-beloved terms his philosophy makes it clear that reciprocity was expected between the lovers.

 

If homosexual relationships were only known as short affairs they are strangely at odds with the elevated nature of eros described by Plato who seems to envisage a lifelong joint search for truth. We should not be misled by statues of old father Zeus abducting young and innocent Ganymede. Although it was accepted that there should be an age difference between lovers this need not be very great. Vase paintings often show youths with boys where the erastes/eromenos distinction is maintained but without much disparity in years. Anal intercourse when shown is almost always between coevals. Aristophanes in the Symposium spins a myth of eros being the result of a single person cut in half trying to find and re-unite with the other half; this more or less implies an expectation that lovers would not be to disparate in age. While not ruling out a decade or so in age difference, we must allow that if a youth was going to form a relationship involving sex with another man he would want and admire somebody in their prime. The realities of the army and gymnasium would ensure a limited age distribution also - the very young nor very old would not be either numerous or admired for their prowess. Homosexual affairs then would take place between men of comparable age and some of them lasted many years - Agathon with his lover in the Symposium, Socrates in his relationship with Alcibiades, who broke all the rules by chasing an older man, and the couples in Thebes' army are all testimony to homosexual 'marriages'. It is however not clear if affairs continued after either party married. Other men were for emotional relationships but alliances and children depended on women. The age of marriage was 30, by convention, and affairs may have reached natural conclusions at that age. We have no evidence either way.

 

As well as conventions on age there were accepted practices in sex, exhibited very well on vase paintings. It is I suggest simply unreasonable to believe that 16-20 year olds, as portrayed on vases, had no sexual response and only unwillingly allowed themselves to be penetrated inter-crurally without any pleasure. Here we have a case of conventions far removed from actuality. While keeping in mind that we hear of no relationships without the active-passive roles, it is clear that writers in contrast to painters expected homosexual sex to include anal penetration; Aristophanes uses the epithet "europroktos"(wide-arsed) for men with a lot of experience of being penetrated. Greek convention decried the passive partner in penetrative intercourse and we may assume that both partners took care that their private pleasures were not made public. It is useful to recall that Greek morals were concerned with what was known not what was done and unlike cases such as dishonouring a guest there was no divine sanction against sexual pleasures, which indeed the gods seemed to enjoy in abundance. In short I think Aristophanes' humour is more reliable than vases. Penetration was important to the Greek idea of what sex was which was why their major distinction was between active and passive rather than 'straight' or 'gay'. What went on behind closed doors probably did not accord with convention.

 

Along with the view of homosexual eros as aristocratic goes the view that it died out or retreated to the world of the intellectual right [14]. Aristocracy and upper class culture did not die out in Greece. Sparta continued much as before and other cities did not adopt Athens radical democracy. An Athenocentric view is here distorting. Homosexuality continued as distinctive trait of Greek culture. Thebes' Sacred Band was created in the 340's. Alexander the Great was not attacked for his homosexuality and his life long affair with Hephaestion. Acceptance of homosexuality first becomes noticeable for its acceptance in archaic Greece but like many institutions of the period it survived into the Hellenistic world and on to Rome. The poems of the Greek Anthology bear ample witness to this. It probably survived as long as urban life prevailed and it took Justinian to ban it - that was probably an anti-clerical move as the kind of men who once entered the Academy were now entering monasteries. Even if we return attention to Athens it is the high proportion of homoerotic sources which was remarkable in the archaic and early classical period. Later there i3 a decline and equalisation but this did not mean homosexuality o- its acceptance disappeared. There was a generally more prudish view of all sexuality and even satyrs come to look respectably human. There was from the late 5th century more heterosexuality in literature but this is partly a result of the end of the lyric, and homoerotic, poets and the onset of comedy, which is an essentially heterosexual genre. Even the lyric poets had had some time for women. So even if Athens saw' a remission in homosexual expression at the end of the 5th century this was not permanent . Once one accepts that homosexual eros was not exclusively aristocratic or confined to Athens it is clear that there was no reason for it to disappear until the destruction of cities in the 7th and 8th centuries AD.

 

Before concluding a mention of female sexuality is called for. Evidence is very restricted. Sappho's poetry shows that women's erotic impulses in her society could be directed at both men and women. A parallelism of male and female sub-cultures has be suggested but we have little or no sources with which we can deny or affirm this. Classical Greece gives us the example of a lesbian scene on a vase and Aristophanes in the Symposium speaks of homosexual female couples to go along with homosexual male and heterosexual couples, but one gets the impression that this was for symmetry's sake. The major problem is that almost all the sources were produced by men and the veil of invisibility surrounding homosexual women, as women in general is almost impenetrable. In fact it is an indication of the prominence of homosexual and male themes in archaic discussion and art about eros that so` little interest in women's feelings and activities was shown by men.

 

if it's an illness then they shouldn't be blamed for it and maybe somebody should find a cure for it.


gay people do not need to be locked in an institution like a mentally deranged person who can't function in everyday life or has sociopathic tendencies. gay people just find other gay people that consent to doing "gay" things and they're all happy. just like any other kind of sexual fetish, if it's consentual and not hurting anybody and not illegal, then there is NO reason to complain about it. just mind your own business.

Nothing in science can be proven true, only proven false.

In my psychology of sexuality class we talked a little bit about homosexuality and how scientists have tried to figure out any biological differences between them and heterosexuals. i must say there's a lot of little stuff, and it's interesting. but you can't call it an "illness." and all this research jus tleads to theories, but homosexuality still isn't considered to be biologically based yet.

 

Bibliography

Aristotle : Nichomachean Ethics

John Boardman : Athenian Black Figure Vases

Felix Buffiere : Eros Adolescent: la pederastie dans la Grece antique

W Burkert : Greek Religion

S Coote : Penguin Book of Homosexual Verse

J K Davis : Democracy and Classical Greece

K J Dover: Greek Homosexuality

'Classical Greek attitudes to sexual behaviour' in Arethusa VI 1973

Michel Foucault : History of Sexuality Vol I

C W Fornara : 'The cult of Aristogeiton and Harmodius' in Philologus CXIV 1970

W K C Guthrie : History of Greek Philosophy Vols III & IV

S C Humphrey : The Family, Women and Death

J T Hooker : The Ancient Spartans

C Johns : Sew or Symbol: Erotic Images in Greece and Rome

O Murray : Early Greece

Plato : Symposium

Plato : Phraedrus

Plato : Laws

Sappho : Poems

Theognis : Poems

Thucydides : Peloponnesian War VI.53

Encyclopaedia Britannica : Vol 16: 603ff "Deviations"

 

From Encarta
Prenatal Sexual Development

About six weeks after conception, if a Y chromosome is present in the embryo's cells (as it is in normal males), a gene on the chromosome directs the undifferentiated gonads to become testes. If the Y chromosome is not present (as in normal females), the undifferentiated gonads will become ovaries.

If the gonads become testes, they begin to produce androgens (male hormones, primarily testosterone) by about eight weeks after conception. These androgens stimulate development of the one set of the genital ducts into the epididymes, vas deferens, and ejaculatory duct. The presence of androgens also stimulates development of the penis and the scrotum. The testes later descend into the scrotum. Males also produce a substance that inhibits the development of the second set of ducts into female organs. In the absence of such hormonal stimulation, female structures develop.

Prenatal hormones also play a role in the sexual differentiation of the brain. For example, prenatal hormones direct the development of sex differences in some cells and the neural pathways in the hypothalamus (the part of the brain that controls the endocrine system). Beginning at puberty, based on prenatal sexual differentiation, the hypothalamus directs either the cyclic secretion of sex hormones that controls the female menstrual cycle or the relatively continuous production of male sex hormones. Other brain differences may be related to differences in sexual and aggressive behavior or in cognitive and perceptual characteristics. Most of the research on sexual differentiation of the brain has been performed with animals or with biased human samples, and there is much debate about the nature and behavioral relevance of these differences in humans.​

From here
THE NEUROANATOMY OF HOMOSEXUALITY
by Rhawn Joseph, Ph.D.

THE LIMBIC SYSTEM: A SEXUAL OVERVIEW

Buried within the depths of the cerebrum are several large aggregates of limbic structures and nuclei which are preeminent in the control and mediation of memory, emotion, learning, dreaming, attention, and arousal, and the perception and expression of emotional, motivational, sexual, and social behavior including the formation of loving attachments.

In general, the primary structures of the limbic system include the hypothalamus, amygdala, hippocampus, septal nuclei, and anterior cingulate gyrus; structures which are directly interconnected by massive axonal pathways (Gloor, 1997; MacLean, 1990; Risvold & Swanson, 1996).

The hypothalamus could be considered the most "primitive" aspect of the limbic system, though in fact the functioning of this sexually dimorphic structure is exceedingly complex. The hypothalamus regulates internal homeostasis including the experience of hunger and thirst, can trigger rudimentary sexual behaviors or generate feelings of extreme rage or pleasure. In conjunction with the pituitary the hypothalamus is a major manufacturer/secretor of hormones and other bodily humors, including those involved in the stress response and feelings of depression.

Indeed, the hypothalamus is highly involved in all aspects of emotional, reproductive, vegetative, endocrine, hormonal, visceral and autonomic functions (Alam et al., 1995; Johnson & Gross, 1993; Markakis & Swanson, 1997; Sherin, et al., 1996; Smith et al. 1990) and mediates or exerts significant or controlling influences on eating, drinking, sleeping and the experience of pleasure, rage, and aversion.

THE SEXUAL DIFFERENTIATION OF THE HYPOTHALAMUS

Structurally and functionally the hypothalamus of males and females are stucturally dissimilar (Bleier et al. 1982; Dorner, 1976; Gorski et al. 1978; Rainbow et al. 1982; Raisman & Field, 1971, 1973) and perform different functions depending on if one is a man or a woman, and if a woman is sexually receptive, pregnant, or lactating. For example, the sexually dimorphic supraoptic and paraventricular nuclei project (via the infundibular stalk) to the posterior lobe of the pituitary which may then secrete oxytocin--a chemical which can trigger uterine contractions as well as milk production in lactating females (and which can thus make nursing a pleasurable experience). The male hypothalamus/pituitary does not perform this function.

SEXUAL DIMORPHISM IN THE HYPOTHALAMUS

As is well known, sexual differentiation is strongly influenced by the presence or absence of gonadal steriod hormones during certain critical periods of prenatal development in many species including humans. Not only are the external genitalia and other physical features sexually differentiated but certain regions of the brain have also been found to be sexually dimorphic and differentially senstitive to steriods, particularly the preoptic area and ventromedial nucleus of the hypothalamus, as well as the amygdala (Bleier et al. 1982; Dorner, 1976; Gorski et al. 1978; Rainbow et al. 1982; Raisman & Field, 1971, 1973).

Indeed it has now been well established that the amygdala and the hypothalamus (specifically the anterior commissure, anterior-preoptic, ventromedial and suprachiasmatic nuclei) are sexually differentiated and have sex specific patterns of neuronal and dendritic development, (Allen et al. 1989; Blier et al. 1982; Gorski et al. 1978; Rainbow et al. 1982; Raisman & Field, 1971, 1973; Swaab & fliers, 1985).

This is a consequence of the presence or absence of testosterone during fetal development in humans, or soon after birth in some species such as rodents. Specifically, the presence or absence of the male hormone, testosterone during this critical neonatal period, directly effects and determines the growth and pattern of interconnections between the amygdala and hypothalamus, between axons and dendrities in these nuclei as well as the hippocampus, septal nuclei, olfactory system, and thus the organization of specific neural circuits.

In the absence of testosterone, the female pattern of neuronal development occurs. Indeed, it is the presence or absence of testosterone during these early critical periods that appear to be responsible for neurological alterations which greatly effect sex differences in thinking, sexual orientation, aggression, and cognitive functioning (Barnett & Meck, 1990; Beatty, 1992; Dawson et al. 1975; Harris, 1978; Joseph, et al. 1978; Stewart et al. 1975).

For example, if the testes are removed prior to differentiation, or if a chemical blocker of testosterone is administered thus preventing this hormone from reaching target cells in the limbic system, not only does the female pattern of neuronal development occur, but males so treated behave and process information in a manner similiar to females (e.g., Joseph et al. 1978); i.e. they develop female brains and think and behave in a manner similar to females. Conversely, if females are administered testosterone during this critical period, the male pattern of differentiation and behavior results (see Gerall et al. 1992 for review).

That the preoptic and other hypothalamic regions are sexually dimorphic is not surprising in that it has long been known that this area is extremely important in controlling the basal output of gonadotrophins in females prior to ovulation and is heavily involved in mediating cyclic changes in hormone levels (e.g. FSH, LH, estrogen, progesterone). Chemical and electrical stimulation of the preoptic and ventromedial hypothalamic nuclei also triggers sexual behavior and even sexual posturing in females and males (Hart et al., 1985; Lisk, 1967, 1971) and, in female primates, even maternal behavior (Numan, 1985). In fact, dendritic spine density of ventromedial hypothalamic neurons varies across the estrus cycle (Frankfurt et al., 1990) and thus presumably during pregnancy and while nursing.

In primates, electrical stimulation of the preoptic area increases sexual behavior in males, and significantly increases the frequency of erections, copulations and ejaculations, we well as pelvic thrusting followed by an explosive discharge of semen even in the absence of a mate (Hart, et al., 1985; Maclean, 1973). Conversely, lesions to the preoptic and posterior hypothalamus eliminates male sexual behavior and results in gonadal atrophy.

Hence, it is thus rather clear than the ability to sexually reproduce is dependent on the functional integrity of the hypothalamus. In fact, it is via the hypothalamus acting on the pituitary, that gonadotropins come to be released. Gonadotropins control the production and/or release of gametes; i.e. ova and sperm.

Specifically, the hypothalamic neurons secrete gonadotropin-releasing hormone, which acts on the anterior lobe of the pituitary which secretes gonadotropins. However, given that in females, this is a cyclic event, whereas in males sperms are constantly reproduced, is further evidence of the sexual dimorphism of the hypothalamus.

THE HOMOSEXUAL HYPOTHALAMUS

Although the etiology of homosexuality remains in question, it has been shown that the ventromedial and anterior nuclei of the hypothalamus of male homosexuals demonstrate the female pattern of development (Levay, 1991; Swaab, 1990). When coupled with the evidence of male vs female and homosexual differences in the anterior commissure which links the temporal lobe and sexually dimorphic amygdala (see below) as well as the similarity between male homosexuals and women in regard to certain cognitive attributes including spatial-perceptual capability (see below), this raises the possibility that male homosexuals are in possession of limbic system that is more "female" than "male" in functional as well as structural orientation.​

So - a strong argument can be made for homosexuality being (for lack of a better word) derived in the brain - the limbic system. But to call this an illness? I can't see how one could call it an illness any more than one could call having red hair or green eyes an illness. It simply happens from time to time, just like red hair - and green eyes.

 

And dont worry folks after this history class she wont be coming back.

 

well thats 1 way i see it also.

 

I find it ah, unique that when they show pictures of Adam & Eve or for that matter even Jesus himself they are always looking very Caucasian. I find that laughable Jesus even by the b-uh-iii bl says that he was Jewish. Now I don't know about the Jewish people you see but the ones I know especially the ones that came from Israel all have nice light brown skin.

About Cain. Well there were all of the animals that were created in those wonderful 7 days. Since early humans descended from Apes anyhow Cain did the nasty with one, right?