Zendik Thread gagged

Geenhornet,
No-one on this thread or the Zendik thread can know anyone else's motivations. Which is one of the points I made so well at the beginning. Neither can anyone validate what is or isn't true.
Do I love the ol' Zendik Farm that much? My posts haven't actually said much good or bad about them. I'd say more if I could prove it-but I can't. I will say Zendik, like all cultures, have a right to their sovereignity. And as individuals, they have a right to their privacy. And they have the right to enjoy their day to the fullest without pissing it away in front of a computer screen.
Which is what you and I should be doing right now. This is page 3, only 82 more until we equal the ol' Zendik thread. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past.

 

"ms. lentil" for all of your declarations about not being a Zendik or someone who is closely associated with the Zendiks, I'm sorry, I still don't believe you. Of course you can't "prove it' either way, but your rationale doesn't make much sense unless you're invested in Zendik in one way or the other.

All I want is for people to have access to the experiences of people who have spent time at Zendik so they can make a more informed decision before they decide to go there or not. Let them judge for themselves.

 

Ms. Hornet,
It's okay if you believe I am a Zendik. Or if you believe anything else.
If you've personally had a bad experience with Zendik and want to share it, why not just include your adress and phone # on this site so anyone deciding to go there can get the "real story" from the source-actually one of the sources- by meeting you or talking with you. No harm would be done, and it is not for me or anyone to pass judgements on direct personal exchange.
I have no vested interest in "protecting" Zendik. I know many men I would NEVER encourage women to fall in love with or even date. That doesn't warrant posting their relationship issues on the web. And if half the posts are actually true, it doesn't justify the half that are lies. Wether the lies are told for fun, vengeance, or even just misunderstandings.
I don't know how closely you follow American Indian Movement and Indian radical activism in general. I suggest you type "Ward Churchill and Clyde Bellecourt" into the Google. This may give you another good example of when online battles take place over fractured movements and ideals. If half this mud-slinging is a fair warning about the activists involved, it could never justify the half that isn't.

Only 82 pages left. I hope we're not in it for the long haul this time...

 

I do not know if you are at Zendik BL, but I do know for a FACT that Zendik has people who spend allot of time just posting on the internet under various names. I know someone at Zendik the last time I was there who was bragging about having over 50 web alts that he used to post pro Zendik propaganda at various sites.



What I don't understand is why someone out there is forcing all you people who do not want to see a discussion of Zendik to read the forum. Here is an easy solution... don't click on the thread. If you are tired of hearing about it then go away instead of crying about how you wish the thread would be closed and disappear.



As for your offer to Green Hornet... I would be more than happy to meet with anyone in the Austin area and tell him or her to his or her face what it was really like at Zendik. Here is my email address...



hi_rob@email.com



Oh and if that isn't enough I can also probably manage to get some of the dozen or so people here that were there as well to do the same thing.

 

Thanks Rasha. You just offered what was obviously the solution at the very beginning of this forum fiasco. Of course, your interpretation is still limited to one man's experience, but as long as it is direct and face-to-face, it is as real as any statement can be.
I would encourage any other posters to do what you have done if they'd like.
And I will contact you if I ever happen to be in Austin...
This is page 3 of an exchange that can go on too long. I hope the other posters can simply list their contact info and then let's all move on to something more interesting.

 

My email address is gothicapd@aol.com

Anyone interested in discussing Zendik is welcome to email me at that address.

We can have monthly Zendik inservices here in Austin, if people like, however, the thread & other Internet discussions of Zendik are important because they provide instant information to anyone doing a google search on "Zendik," and that's why the people at Zendik hate that thread so much.

 

Hey "black Lentil" why don't you post your email address and perhaps your name & address as well so people who want to discuss Zendik can discuss it with you?

 

Greenhornet,
I tried to upload the PZ files I have but the file is to large.....
OK.... Maybe if I break it up...
Here's the front page.

 

Here are all the images....
Sorry file to large...
I'll try and upload everything to a free server......
Be in touch.

 

Interesting, no resonse from "black lentil" about the giving her? email address. I guess a an address from one of Zendik's servers would blow her? cover.

 

Wow! When I saw this thread I was about to say that I was on the fence about locking the zendik thread. I am a strong believer in free speech so I would have strong misgivings about locking any topic. However, the zendik thread was getting way out of hand. Now this thread is only on it’s third page and is already just as bad as the original zendik thread. Now, I think old wolf did the right thing in locking the thread. When only one view is accepted or seen as legitimate you no longer have free debate and thus no free speech. Not only do I now agree that the zendik topic should stay locked and the sticky removed but I also think that the last 2 pages of this topic should be deleted as most of the posts are off topic. This thread is "Zendik Thread gagged" not "who is or is not a zendik". I don’t know if black lentil is a zendik or not, nor do I care. Well actually I do care because if he/she is from zendik farm then that person should have just as much of a right to express his/her views as everyone else.

 

Well said Dalamar.
In the interest of fairness I can be reached at:
lobatitties@yahoo.com
I WILL NOT continue this debate via e-mail, but any reader can contact me with further questions.
Let's all call it quits while we're ahead [sic]. No need to bullshit for another 81 pages.
Signing off (for good I hope),
black lentil

 

What I still don't understand is...

If you don't want to see the thread, why do you keep posting in it?

I feel like people have a right to hear about Zendik, and even though I was not happy with where the discussion went from time to time, and even said as much a few times, that is what you get with free speech. You may not like to hear what someone else has to say, but if they do not have the right to speak, then why should you. The title of the index page is 400+ free speech forums.

I understand that you have some special interest in what people say about Zendik. You could not know the stuff you do if you had not lived at the farm. Why don’t you just have the guts to tell us all who you really are? I post under my Zendik name, what are you afraid of?

The whole point is that there is no other place on the Internet that you can get info about Zendik that is not their own propaganda. As long as some other place is available so that people can get both sides I am fine with the thread being locked, as there still is a thread. I must say though that if you concern is about keeping people from criticizing Zendik on the internet, all getting this site to take down the sticky will do is force me to post on another forum, or ten others. You cannot stop free speech. I love the Internet.

Rasha

 

It is not that I do not want the zendik thread to exist. I just want everyone to be able to share their views. The entire 85 page zendik thread is nothing but a huge anti-zendik propaganda machine of it's own. People who may have an opinion or experience that differs from yours (and the 3 or 4 other anti-zendiks that kept that thread going) are ruthlessly and personally attacked! The hole thread is filled with wild accusations and no proof to back it up. Then, when someone does step up to tell a different side of the story they are silenced. I do not call that free debate or free speech, which is why I support the thread being locked and the sticky removed.

Absolutely, you have the right to criticize organizations, philosophies etc.. and that is the great thing about free speech and the internet. However, I honestly do not think that the zendik thread constitutes free speech in any form. When someone like black lentil makes a post in an attempt to defend the zendiks the persons ideas are not debated. Instead he/she is attacked personally. Is that fair or right? I say no. I am sorry but that is not free debate or free speech IMO.

 

I really don't understand why Dalamar is so obsessed with defending Zendik. He has never lived there and probably only knows the place from looking at its website.

Having never lived at Zendik, or even persona;lly knowing anyone from Zendik, Dalamar is in no position to determine what in the Zendik thread is "propagana" and what isn't. And, free speech is just that, everyone, such as "black lentil" has a right to say whatever they want, but others also have a right to dispute it. The main push that "black lentil was making was to shut down all discussion of Zendik on this forum, which is NOT free speech in any form.

 

So now I've read many, many, many posts about the Zendiks, who by the way I do not really know but have had some on-the-street contact with since they moved to near my hometown outside Washington. And I guess for full disclosure I should say what I thought of them before reading the article about them in this week's City Pages and then this whole thread and the old one that got gagged.

Here's what I thought: they seemed sketchy, and seemed like they talked a lot about "peace" but didn't strike me as very peaceful. There was something weirdly kind of I guess aggressive about them, so I knew I didn't want to move in with them or anything like that, but they seemed kind of good for a bit of fun.

There, with my bias out, I'll go on to what I really joined Hip Forums for the point of saying: I understand why everyone who bashed Zendiks on the old thread was unhappy. I would be miserable with all that stuff too, like the hierarchy, the imposed promiscuity, having to work long hard days and never being appreciated for it. But that stuff also kind of makes sense. If you bring a bunch of dropouts to a farm and don't force them to work, how will stuff ever get done? Not like they couldn't be nicer about it, but clearly not being nicer hasn't hurt them too much so why would they sweat it?

As I said I would be miserable there. But if you don't want to warp your mind, take orders from someone else, live strictly according to an iffy "philosophy," etc., stay in the "deathkultur" or whatever!!!! You want to choose who to sleep with? Live in the real world, where people choose their own sex partners - or not - as they want!! You want freedom to form committed sexual relationships, not be browbeaten into promiscuity, to sleep with your chosen partner every night rather than returning to your bunk? Do what almost everyone else does: get married and get your own home!!

You don't want to sleep in a bunk with your "co-workers," the people you worked with all day every day? Get a real job! You go home from it at the end of the day!! even if you work at Walmart or some other exploitative place - you then go home and sleep with your partner and family, not your co-workers!!! Want to choose what work you do? There are millions of jobs available in the deathkultur and you can choose among them!!

Want intellectual diversity, to discuss philosophers not just one philosopher who's kind of a hack? Get a degree in philosophy!! Then you can go on to teach it, and that'll be your job - no all day hard labor, but talking about philosophy to others - then going home to sleep with your loved ones!!

You want appreciation for your work? Get a real job - you get paid for it! You don't want to be left with nothing but the clothes on your back when you leave your job/move your home? Get a real job, get a bank account, and save your money!! Don't want people to confront you with every petty complaint about your personality or whatever? People don't behave like that in the deathkultur, so stay there!! If they don't like something about you, they just don't hang around you and that's that.

I could go on like this forever. You want an indoor toilet/a composting toilet/whatever? Get your own place to live and have whatever toilet you want. You want to eat organically but not eat too little or eat only the less exciting stuff unless youre a Zendik elite? Do your own grocery shopping and cooking!! Want to live ecologically, in a legit permaculture? Set it up and keep it going.

If it is that you want to choose who to sleep with, not be pressured to be promiscuous, choose your own method of birth control, choose where to work and when, have something to show for your work, want intellectual diversity, etc., but then you also want the good stuff about Zendik like to live on a beautiful farm: Buy your own farm! Save up your money, buy your own farm, keep the title to your own car, and use it to commute to your job every day so you can keep paying the bills etc. Most most most people live exactly like this and they choose to do it that way. If this is how you want to live, why bother the Zendiks?

 

It's really not a matter of leaving the Zendiks "alone." It's about letting people know about Zendik so they make an informed decision about whether to donate money to them or choose to go there. Zendik has tax-free status, claming to be a charitable organization. Zendik makes a lot of big claims, but then often seems to fall short of those claims. Zendik sees itself as a political movement, and as such is subject to scrutiny and public criticism. It is also subject to taxpayer scrutiny as a publically recognized "charity foundation."

 

The thing is that Zendik Farm made a promise to me and everyone that has ever been there and that promise was to live, work and create your art with the best friends one could imagine on what they said was a little bit of paradise.
They made me see the lies and corruption of this society and assured me that their culture was a healing one where I could be a whole new me. I'm sure this is still their rap and lure to get people to come there and all who have been there know that they hardly accept everyone and are down right rude and cruel to those who they think "don't get it".
I agree with Wishington on everything but leaving them alone. I'd like to see the Post Zendik Site up again so people can learn about the harsh cruel reality of living with the Zendiks.
On the other hand, I'm over it. I've finally found my peace, my paradise, my loves and my arts without the help of some fanatical old hippie chick with a whale tattooed on her face and mostly without the help from a bunch of self centered, think they know it all, confused bunch of blind followers. I say we re launch the Post Zendik site, post our stories and let it be. I for one am tired of re living one of the most horrible events of my life and I think we should all find our peace and let them do whatever it is they do as we all know a lie cannot be sustained forever.
It took me 41 years and a lot of pain, suffering and traveling but finally it's all come together, nothing bothers me anymore as I've been through it all and now I'm home again and for once I've found my peace.
I've one more trip to make, Greenhornet, I leave for the rain forest again today for the last time then fly out to Honolulu Wednesday. I'll be living it up in Waikiki for two weeks and then I'm off to my brothers place to start our own Eco-village on three acres in a tropical valley. I'll get back to you and if you like get the Post Zendik site back up for good but again I think we should just post our stories there for others to decide then get over it, forget the past and work on our own peace.....
Until then all of you be well.....

 

lol red Lentil ....Zendik is the Voice of the People it is all about Ecolapse and Nucleacide...why use other peoples fate to hold time.....

 

Zendik is a politcal movement so that makes me the last Hippy......