The Dutch Create the Real Big Brother

Discussion in 'Amsterdam' started by skip, Sep 14, 2005.

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  1. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Yeah, that really qualifies you to attack me when you don't even bother to read what I write. Good one. That's exactly what trolls & flamers do.
     
    skip, Sep 30, 2005
    #81
  3. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    BTW, I attack the Dutch "in general" because it's a satire on how the Dutch often attack immigrants and minorities "in general" (Theo Van Gogh comes easily to mind), and how conservatives attack "liberals" in general. I use the same propaganda techniques that others use. I wanna push your buttons to do more cause the way your whole country is perceived is often based upon the actions of your government.

    Once Europeans excused Americans for the actions of their elected president Bush, but after the second time he was elected, Europeans finally wised up that indeed Americans ARE RESPONSIBLE for the acts of their elected leaders as long as they remain in power. You Dutch are no different. You must act until change comes, until then you ALL bear some responsibility cause we foreigners can't do anything about it, just as you can't change American policy.
     
    skip, Sep 30, 2005
    #82
  5. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    As a Dutch person myself I find this a very amusing thread and in general I disagree with the Dutch people here who try to defend our 'wonderful, liberal' country.

    Basically, we do shit and we do not care about politics that much, only when it hurts us personally. Me and my generation are big egoists and do-nothingers and blame others for the things that are going wrong.
    A good scapegood these days are the Muslims.
    We are scared to stand out and make a point. Better to keep your mouth shut and let someone else speak up.

    Protest? 'Nah, it is saturday today and I do not want to waste my day off.'

    As for me; I am a typical product of my generation. Lazy, careless, cynical.
    Prefer to hang out in a bar having a few drinks and complain about how bad our government is than to actually do something.

    Yep, we are going down the drain and we are becoming a policestate, but since I believe in the theory that after a bad period a good period will come and things will be fine again I think that I can just go to my favorite bar and have another drink.
     
    bird_migration, Sep 30, 2005
    #83
  7. consolidated

    consolidated Banned

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    I think no dutch people here are trying to defend our government.. I've never heard someone say in here that they like Jan Peter or sth like that.. We all hate him, And you should get of your ass and help us protest!! :)
     
    consolidated, Oct 1, 2005
    #84
  9. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    See, I'm NOT making this stuff up! Thank you Bird for actually telling it like it is.

    That is exactly what I observed during my years in the country. I also noticed that there were many older Dutch who remember very well the heady days of the late 60s, early 70s when it was the people themselves, filling the streets who determined the course of the country.

    The Dutch social system and famous tolerance were not handed to the Dutch by your government or Queen. They were earned thru activism of a whole generation who opened their minds to new social possibilities. You had a chance to start afresh and the result was one of the most innovative and progressive social programs in the world.

    That generation and its activism are now just history in Holland, as new generations' apathy prevails. You guys go to a protest once in awhile and think that takes care of your social responsibility. It doesn't. There's LOTS more to be done. There are many Dutch who have committed their lives to various progressive causes. But all their work is for nought if they don't get enough support from the public.

    Also at some point passive non-violent protest is no longer effective because it fails to confront the powers that be effectively enough. You must continue to confront them actively to where they respond, usually with excessive force to illustrate to ALL Dutch people how repressive their own government has become.

    That is exactly what happened when the Provos took to the street and demanded the government change its policies. It seems to me the Dutch don't give this movement its due credit for having helped create modern Dutch socialism.

    What I think every Dutch person needs to realize is that they CAN make a difference if they just get up off their asses and do MORE!

    I remember the level of activism in the US in the 1960s & early 70s. It was everywhere, on every campus with teach-ins, protests, petitions, street theater almost every day.

    We confronted the establishment wherever it exceeded its mandate, wherever racism, oppression, fascism and imperialism appeared.

    If they tried that ID card shit and street stops & fines in the USA even today it would be met with every kind of protest you can imagine. The fact that the Dutch are so complacent is shocking.

    Here you had 50,000 opportunities to protest this invasion of privacy and insult to your citizens, but apparently only 250 bothered to put up a fuss.

    In the US when they handed us draft cards we burnt them. Here you fork over your money and think that piece of plastic is somehow gonna protect you from some unknown fear your government has instilled in your hearts.

    In fact it is your own government that you now must fear because now there is no escape from it should you ever need to run. When they start rounding people up and bringing them to Muiderport station for their last train ride, will you stand up and shout and stop them? Apparently not. You didn't in the 1940s so why do so now. It's so much easier to ignore the reality of what is going on around you.

    Have another Heinekin and toast the end of your free society.

    Big Brother is watching you Dutch, smiling and plotting your fascist future. Whatcha gonna do about it?
     
    skip, Oct 1, 2005
    #85
  11. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    It's not easy to protest when you are in a different country. ;)
    But as I said before, I am a typical product of our time and a simple protest is not going to change anything. I believe in evolution rather than revolution.

    People have to find out by themselves that our country is being 'ruined' by all these idiotic rules, regulations and controlling.
    If people realise that I think there will be a slow but steady shift towards a more liberal country again.
    Just like after WWII.
    And if the people do not think we need a change, it is their choice and our decision to become the fascist country we are becoming.
    Democracy.
     
    bird_migration, Oct 1, 2005
    #86
  13. consolidated

    consolidated Banned

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    Well this attitude is exactly what's wrong with this country indeed..
    They put the mock in demockracy and you swallowed every hook..
    If you haven't noticed 'the people' aren't very capable of thinking for themselves when people as pim fortuyn and geert wilders come by. They stop thinking and follow, untill something else is in fashion.. We need to open their eyes and make them think about what the concequences are of what they keep repeating.. That's no revolution, that's helping 'demockracy'.. That's why I protest, to try to make people think.. Not only the politicians, but mainly the general public..
    So when you get back, come join us protest :)
     
    consolidated, Oct 2, 2005
    #87
  15. fedor

    fedor Member

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    Don't you forget about me.

    And Rita is my hero
     
    fedor, Oct 2, 2005
    #88
  17. consolidated

    consolidated Banned

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    how could I forget about you... sorry fedor ;) forgive me..
     
    consolidated, Oct 2, 2005
    #89
  19. hippypaul

    hippypaul Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I do not have the knowledge base to comment about the Dutch political situation. However, the above is very true.

     
    hippypaul, Oct 2, 2005
    #90
  21. bird_migration

    bird_migration ~

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    You can protest by deeds and by words and fueling the fire by words is, in my humble opinion, just as powerfull as by deeds.
     
    bird_migration, Oct 3, 2005
    #91
  23. jasonspaceman

    jasonspaceman Member

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    ....another phase is put in place. it doesn't even matter if this never makes it into law (although i think the chances are pretty good these days), it gives the dutch tacit approval to harrass non dutch speakers in public (even more than they already do).

    this isn't some far out irrelevant and anonymous government official making this suggestion, it's the REAL immigration minister.

    http://www.expatica.com/source/site..._id=27021&name=Verdonk+backs+code+of+conduct+
     
    jasonspaceman, Jan 23, 2006
    #92
  25. guest1234

    guest1234 Visitor

    Oh how i hate her.
     
    guest1234, Jan 24, 2006
    #93
  27. furball666

    furball666 Member

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    isnt there compulsory voting in netherlands?
    sso then how could this have happened I to have been following the situation worried. but its happening all over the world. i dont think keeping record is such a bad thing we allready have that in finland. but i dont like bush facist protect ourselves from terrorist mania. puplic smoking banned compulsory ID's.. not looking good. hope you overthrow the goverment.
     
    furball666, Feb 13, 2006
    #94
  29. hippypaul

    hippypaul Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Schweitzer “The child of nature becomes a ready worker only so far as he ceases to be free and become unfree
    The citizens of westernized states passed this particular point long ago. The rulers of civilized modern countries have increasingly realized that they cannot “do good” to their subjects and allow them to be free at the same time The administrators of the welfare state in Britain for example, have seen that they cannot look after a man and simultaneously let him wander around loose. It is too untidy.

    C.S. Lewis
    The loftier the pretensions of power, the more meddlesome, inhuman and oppressive it will be. Thus the Renaissance doctrine of Divine Right is for me a corruption of monarchy; Rousseau’s General Will of democracy; radical mysticisms, of nationalism. All political power is at best a necessary evil: but it is least evil when its sanctions are most modest and commonplace, when it claims no more than to be useful or convenient and set itself strictly limited objectives. Anything transcendental or spiritual, or even anything very strongly ethical, in its pretensions is dangerous and encourages it to meddle in our private lives, Let the shoemaker stick to his last.

    ALL OF ABOVE FROM The Land God made in anger by Jon-Manchip White
     
    hippypaul, Feb 13, 2006
    #95
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