The qualification of parenthood. To make being a parent as least as hard to qualify for as being a janitor. Most humans fail miserably. Religion knows this. And has always known it. Church teaches parents enforce. a circle of slavery for the child. Occam
Hmmm... Question for you. Do you believe in disciplining children? Or do you feel that children should be allowed to do whatever their hearts desire, even if it's not "the right thing to do?" Let's play pretend (LOL!): Say, for instance, you receive an angry call from your child's teacher because Little Occam (or whatever ) beat the living crap out of some other kid who called him a dork. I think we can all agree that it wasn't cool for the other kid to call him a dork, but should we allow our children to retaliate in a way that could get them expelled? Two phrases come to mind: "Vengance is mine, saith the L-rd" and "Turn the other cheek." Had our hypothetical Little Occam been brought up with the L-rd, he would already have known these, and Big Occam wouldn't be sitting in front of the PTA appealing his hypothetical son's expulsion.
Hippy Hmmmm... Question for you. what has discipline to do with what occam proposed? Are you saying there is no discipline in non christian households. That buddhist children run riot? That athiest children do not respect their parents? Quite the opposite. All religions push education of the children of the flock. And the parents allow it because they have no answers to the questions children raise. But the church does..It's called dogma. The gist of this thread is that there are no qualifications required to have the most important job there is. Raising a human being from birth to self reliance. God never comments on this. In the 'books'. There are no exhorations to parents to let children question authority and ignorance. And this is one of the most prominent arguements against the veracity of holy books. For any can see that ignorant parents will most probably produce ignorant children. this is 'gods plan'? Occam despairs for the wasted potential of children. Occam
Dear Occam- A reasonable Christian parent applies their spirituality in teaching their children about morals and ethics, expecting them to learn discipline in a reasonable fashion. All of this assumes these people, churches and methods are, in fact, reasonable. I don't agree that reasonable application of ethics is slavery. I wouldn't suggest that children of other spiritual backgrounds are disrespectful, because other methods of spirituality also teach codes of ethics and proper action. However, I can't necessarily agree with the idea that children who aren't raised in any faith whatsoever are just as well-behaved as those that are. I've just not seen that in my own experience (although my experience is limited, of course). *shrugs* Ethics taught without a connection to the well-being of the spirit don't seem to take very well... I posted because I don't agree that creating qualifications for parenthood would be a threat to Christianity. There might be some folks who call themselves Christians who'll have a problem... But the faith itself won't suffer. When applied with reason, Christianity can produce some fine, open-minded, intelligent, loving people... Just like the other faiths you mentioned. The reason I'm not a member of those faiths is because I feel that a few very important key elements are missing. That's all. I must admit though, IMO, suggesting qualifications for parenthood doesn't seem much different than the involuntary sterilization of those society deemed "unfit" in our past history... Many people who are concerned about human rights issues take issue with restricting what they consider everyone's right to reproduce. Check out this article at the link below for more info on involuntary sterilization in U.S. history. http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/eugenics_1/
Hippy Again, why is discipline being spoken of? Disciple is a minor part of the responsibillity the parent has accepted in bringing a human being into the world. Also You say a reasonable parent applies their spirituallity in teaching their children morals and ethics. What about reasonable parents who apply their reason in teaching their children morals and ethics. [as occam has done] When reason teaches such, it does not have to threaten punishment by a tyrant god of love who casts wrongdoers into hell. Or do suggest morals and ethics are purely the preserve of the spiritual? That humans cannot have a rational non-spiritual code of morals and ethics? Ps.. Yes everyone has the right to reproduce. But does everyone have the right to condemn another human being. the child they make. To an existance stunted by the incompetance of the parent.? You speak of reproduction rights. Occam speaks of the rights of the child. Occam
Then, my Occam, we have a difference of opinion... I don't think the role discipline plays is minor at all. Love and discipline go hand-in-hand, the former tempering the measures of the latter. Teaching our children how to behave with respect for themselves and others hardly seems to be trivial, IMO. I'm not saying this is the only duty a parent has, but I don't agree that it's one of the minor ones. Yes, a reasonable Christian parent (I'll go even further to say, a reasonable parent of any spiritual background) will use their spirituality in a reasonable fashion to teach lessons like this. I've not seen reason work as well as spirituality in regards to rearing kids... I'd love to be proven wrong, but all of my atheist friends' kids are absolute terrors. Remember: We're talking about opinions here. You hold the opinion that Christians would struggle if qualifications to be a parent were introduced into our culture. I disagree. BTW, Hell is a minor issue to some Christians. I'm one of them. Forgiveness is abundant and readily available to be had... I don't agree that G-d is a tyrant any more than we parents are tyrants for desiring our children to act properly. *looks at previous post* Where'd I say that...? LOL! Morality/ethics seem to be governed by the realm of our conscience, which lets us know when we've violated our standards. I wouldn't say ethics and morals are purely spiritual, but spirituality seems to give many a deeper connection to our conscience, which in turn should be reflected in our actions. *sighs* NO. They can. I've not seen this work very well, in my experience. My experience is limited, of course. But then, we are discussing opinions, are we not? Well, consider this, if you would... What of the right of the child to exist and have a life? To experience love... To experience anything at all...? An imperfect parent that is present beats a dead-beat parent that is absent, for certain. But who cares, if that parent doesn't have the right to even bring the child into existence to partake in this world? It's a life ended before it even began, because we made the decision that non-existence is better than an imperfect existence for them. Is it our right to be able to do that? I look forward to reading your response... Later on, Occam.
