You are not the mind or body

You are not the body or the mind. What are you?

It is seen that we are not the body by the fact that our dream body trancend the physical, and deep sleep transends both bodies. If one tries to imagine oneself as dead, it is seen to be impossible. One either sees the body from above or is in the dead body, but the awareness remains.


Awareness is present in deep sleep, or else the continuity of ego would be broken. And you can be woken up from deep sleep, thus proving that awareness of body is present.


It is seen that we are not the mind either. Where is the mind in deep sleep? The mind is just as fleeting as the body. The mind is a collection of thoughts. The thoughts depend on one thought, the I thought. Without the I thought, their is no point of reference or awareness of other thoughts. Holding onto to the I thought to the exlusion of others is a sacred path. This induces the mind to stop, and will leave.... awareness.

The only constant in this whole universe is our awareness of the universe. This awareness is undefiled by anything. It is the mirror apon which the universe is projected.

You are awareness.

Namaste
Om Namah Shivaya
Jason James Morgan

 

There's actually no proof that all that you describe isn't simply the functioning of the brain. We don't know for sure that consciousness can exist independently of the brain. In sleep etc. it's just a different brain function than in the waking state.

 

Near Death experiences do support the first post. Plenty of examples of people being brain dead but awareness still existing. Obviously not everyone excepts this.

 

Phil, I think you ought to check up on the facts about OBE's. Once brain death occurs, there is no way of bringing a person back. The heart may stop for a few minutes, but the brain continues to function. Once brain function ceases, death occurs.
Myself, I don't know if OBE's do actually happen outside the body. As I said before, it could all be taking place within the brain.
A lot more research should be done on this. Until it can be established, if it ever can by science, then either explanation is equally plausible.

 

they believe the Near Death experiences are caused by some sort of mechanism your brain goes through when the heart stops and its about to die. from testing neurochemicals in the brains of people who have just died, there are huge levels of DMT (and others but this is the important one), which is also known as the spirit molecule. when sleeping, this chemical is in high levels as well, and is perhaps what stimulates dreaming. People can take dmt as a drug and it is known to give what some people believe to be the most absolute reality disintegrating experience of all the drugs. some people are skeptical that such a chemical can be responsible for such things as dreams, because dreams seem very different from the reported effects of taking dmt externally. that ignores the fact that in the brain, the chemicals are controlled, wheras when you take the drug, it attatches to receptors all over the brain at once. So the raised levels of dmt during REM sleep would explain the expansive and complex nature which is part controllable, part subjected to the ego, that is dreams. the body is still functioning, you just do not sense touch. when you are sober, you sense your body only because you have the sense of touch connected to your awareness. when you sleep, teh bosy is always tehre. if the heart stops, you will die, if your body is subjected to conditions, its totally real and its totally effecting your minds health and survival. when in deep sleep, your mind is still there, it is just in a mode that records nothing that you can remember. the mind is always functioning, it just does different functions, which people take for granted. its the same brain thats dreaming, thats doing what it does in deep sleep, and thats making your conscious world when you are awake. its just acting in differnet ways,for a whole third of the tiem for some people.
when people die, they often report blinding light and energy and whatnot and seeing images of their life and seeing dead family members or loved ones. The fact that dmt levels are particularly high at the moment of death (and birth they say but that is probably rather different. ), can pretty much explain this. deep memories coming out, extreme feeling of energy, realisation of the loved ones who had passed away, for they leave a special memory of great magnitude.

all this means that the mind is affected by the body (organ - brain)in most of these tiems you say teh body is not present. if it affects the mind in a specific way then how can it not be a part of what you are?

 

sorry i hope that made sense, the influence is apon me

 

people do have nde's when brain dead apparently,
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http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn’t functioning. It’s not there. It’s destroyed. It’s abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don’t know what’s happening and the brain isn’t working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won’t remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."

​

 

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.

 

I'd say that if a person can be brought back, the brain can't really be said to be dead.

I don't think there can really be much conclusive evidence. Those who believe in the existence of consciousness independently of the brain will go on believing, and vica versa. Myself I haven't seen any conclusive evidence either way.

 

I don't think there is actually any dmt present in the brain, unless you put some in!

 

dmt is produced by the peneal gland. not to be condescending, but its general neurochemical fact which has had lots of studies done, not some hunch scientists have.

 

OK Bill, this is news to me. Can you give any links to items on this?

 

http://www.maps.org/pipermail/maps_forum/2002-May/004331.html

sorry it appears a few sources i had read had twisted the truth perhaps. there isnt evidence of it being created in teh peneal gland but is produced in the body nonetheless, somehow.

 

Interesting. But I don't know if this accounts for OBEs and so on.

I think more research needs to be done.

 

Consciousness is not a mere oozing of the brain. Plants have no brains, yet they are living conscious entities. They respond to music and conversation. They grow towards light instinctively. Microorganisms have no brain, yet they are also living creatures. Consciousness is the life force in us, that which changes the inert physical matter into a functioning sentient creature.

 

I don't think consciousness is equivalent to the vital force in beings as you suggest. I base that view on the teaching of Sri Aurobindo, who sees the vital as existing on a level far below that of the conscious entity. As the universe became manifest, so the vital became separated from the Divine source. Hence we have a universe of more or less ignorant life-forms.
But even if it were the same thing, it still doesn't mean that consciousness can exist seperate from a physical form.
I'm not saying that it doesn't - But there is no way to prove it either by philosophical argument or as yet by scientific experiment. Even direct personal experience could be deceptive. If. for example, I think I've left my body, there is no way to prove that the experience isn't simply happening in the brain. Such experiences are subjective, and it's very hard to find any way to verify them. There is evidence both ways.
Maybe that's part of the reason that most spiritual paths speak of the need for faith. But again, care is needed there too, as blind faith, or faith in a falsehood are quite possible.

 

Can electricity exist separate from an appliance? We don't see or feel its presence, unless there is some instrument through which it is expressed. That does not mean electricity cannot exist independent of them.

 

Sri Aurobindo.

Since you're basing what you say on Sri Aurobindo...

 

lightning
a spark on a winter's day
static electrcity
a chemical reaction
lighting a match
a firecracker going off
a baby wailing

 

I was only saying that according to Sri A, the vital or life force is only an indirect expression of the Divine Consciousness.

I'm not saying that consciousness doesn't exist independently of the brain or body, just that it's not possible really to prove this is so, either by logic or science.
If I say, OK - I believe, based on my own experience that consciousness exists in total independence - that's only my own subjective view. But it could be accounted for in other ways also, so I'm not fixed in my beliefs about this - I prefer to remain open minded.
There's no doubt that for humans, a great deal of their experience of reality depends on the brain and cns. Stoner Bill says the brain produces DMT- I don't know if that is true, but the effects of such substances on perception and consciousness proves that even a very tiny change in brain chemistry can produce a whole different level of awareness.
Possibly, yoga exercises, such as pranayama may also affect the actual physical chemistry of the brain. In subtle ways, so does diet.