Fahrenheit 9/11 - what some people think

Some rightwing wanna-bes in here have stated that Michael Moore "goes too far" in his criticism. Here's a man who believes that Moore didn't go nearly far enough. I sorta agree
check this out:

www.davidicke.com/icke/index1c.html

MOORE MOVIE BIGGER ON PROMOTION
THAN CUTTING EDGE CONTENT

By David Icke
I've just watched the Michael Moore documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11, on its first day of public screening in the United States.

First of all it is great to see that information kept from the American people, basic as it is in this documentary, is being made available to counter some of the massive rightwing bias in the mainstream media. To Americans who know nothing about the political and media manipulations it will be a revelation, but for those who have done a modicum of research will find little here to increase their awareness.

The documentary misses an enormous opportunity to reveal the true scale of the conspiracy (yes, conspiracy) behind 9/11 and current events. It reveals that Bush is a lazy, incompetent fool; that the bombing of Iraq caused horrific civilian casualties; that US troops are being killed and maimed to defend an invasion justified by a Big Lie; that the parents of those civilians and troops suffer unspeakable emotional trauma from losing their loved ones; that Bush was scammed into power at the last election by the Supreme Court; that the Bush family has serious connections to the Bin Laden family and the Saudi royals; and that the corporate cartels make fortunes both from supplying the weapons to destroy cities and infrastructure and then by 're-building' the devastated countries and seizing control of their resources, like oil, land, and agriculture.

All this information needed to be included, of course, but it is widely available either by scanning a vast stream of Internet sites or often even through some peripheral parts of the mainstream media. In the case of Bush being a lazy, incompetent fool, you only need your eyes and a few brain cells to see that.

I have seen BBC documentaries about the government/media slanting of the invasion of Iraq and the way the U.S. authorities are targeting the poor and jobless to join the military that tell the same story Moore does.

Yes, it is good that Americans are getting a chance to see such material, but to justify the colossal hype this documentary has received it surely should have gone much further and produced background that would never be found in any mainstream media source. After all, it cannot be claimed that such information is not available to Michael Moore.

Most disappointing was the way he accepts and perpetutates the official 9/11 story that it was orchestrated by Osama bin Laden via 19 Arab terrorists, mostly Saudis, who learned to fly jumbo jets at one engine, two-seater, flying schools. This is blatantly ludicrous and the information to expose such nonsense can, once again, be found at a long list of 9/11 websites and books.

In fact, I sent a copy of Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster to Michael Moore some 18 months or so ago when he was speaking in London. Some of the most basic information in the book and on the Internet is included in the film, but the most important background to 9/11 is not even mentioned.

As with Bowling for Columbine, Moore picks an easy and obvious target while often massively missing the point. Getting rid of Bush is not going to change anything except the rhetoric and the presentation. The agenda will continue whichever of them should win. Where was the fact that both Bush and Kerry are initiates of the same elite and Skull and Bones Society, for example, which both refuse to talk about?

Any suggestion that Iraq was about more than just oil and money or that there is a conspiracy behind world events is not even mentioned, except for one contributor who tells us that there is no conspiracy to control the world. "It is all just about money", he said. There is much more to it than mere financial gain.

Where was the story of the Project for the New American Century and its document that sets out the very agenda for global conquest involving Iraq, Iran, North Korea and China, etc., which the Bush administration has been slavishly following since it came to power under the control of the very people behind the PNAC? Where was the fact that the document said a year before 9/11 that its agenda would be slow to unfold 'absent some catastrophic and catalysing event like a new Pearl Harbor' and that after the 'new Pearl Harbor' of 9/11 those horrific attacks have been used to rapidly advance the PNAC agenda?

These were among many such glaring omissions.

I am delighted the movie is out there, disappointing as I found the depth of research, but the danger is that people will think they now know the information that has been kept from them and therefore fail to realise that Moore has a small amount of the real background to global events and control. Or that they will focus themselves on targeting and removing Bush when he is just a puppet and Kerry would be yet another.

Outside the theatre where I watched the documentary there were activists seeking to use it to attract support for anti-Bush campaigns and to register to vote when the system is so rigged that voting is a quaint irrelevance.

Michael Moore could have used his high public profile and film-making resources to show people the far more fundamental background to global control, the emerging global fascist state, and the real road to freedom.

Instead, unless people realise this is only part - and a small part - of the story behind global events this movie will lead them into another cul-de-sac.

Fahrenheit 9/11 could have been a fantastic contribution to human understanding of the forces that manipulate the global population. Instead, I thought it was far too timid, limited and one-dimensional.

It is definitely worth seeing if you know nothing of the world beyond the official story, but what an opportunity lost.

 

David Icke, I mostly agree with you.
But Fahrentheit IS a good start, if only a small one for people who already understand the enormous scope of modern imperialism. However it's monumental for those who only knew the official story, like you stated.

Perhaps it would have been too overwhelming for people to swallow so much all at once. Maybe Moore is including just enough for people to take home and digest without vomiting their guts out. Remember the scene in the matrix when Neo puked after seeing the battery in Morpheus's hand? Humans can only take so much as a given time.

So perhaps Michael Moore didn't include the true conspiracy of global domination so people wouldn't panic or faint. "A little at a time" he could be thinking?

Or even more sinister, maybe he didn't want to include more for fear of his own physical well-being. Paul Wellstone (I believe) was assassinated for his politics...so maybe Moore is being cautious for his own safety and the safety of his loved ones.

All speculation of course...but everything aside, F9/11 is a GREAT starting point. Let's hope the momentum continues to build which I think it most certainly is.

 

Oh wait!...isn't this guy Icke the nutty sports presenter off TV who suddenly one day started wearing purple robes and told everyone he was the next messiah?...oh doh!!!


http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/resrch/ltrsoths/ickeblf.htm

 

With a reply like that, I'm guessing you're originally from new jersey?

 

I haven't seen the movie yet. Though Bowling for Columbine was a good movie, I'd really like to hear more about it before I actually spend money on it.

 

well im downloading it right now.. now from what I have heard I can say this.. Moore is a jerk.. this is the wrong time to release this video.. we are at war.. we loose morale and more people die.. More Is an Idiot and Unamerican.. He has rights to say what he thinks and lie all he wants but I also have those rights.. and what I say is more realalistic.. I guess Mike Hucabee governor form Arkansas sumed it up the best, "If you want to see fiction, there are plenty of things on. There's Shrek 2, the Harry Potter movies...."

Ouch.. lol he is a funey man... Oh well I dont think I am able to decuss it too well w/o seeing it.. I have herd from many who have seen it and they say it just wasn't a good movie all polotics aside.. With whats going on it is stuped to make this movie now.. we now have the support of the UN and Nato to rebuild Iraq and the country has sovernty 2 days early and Saddam' s trial is coming up this week(I think its thursday but it may be next thursday..)

 

"Oh well I dont think I am able to decuss it too well w/o seeing it.."


Exactly! But instead you still choose to open up your big mouth with all this crap you keep spouting. Watch the frickin movie, THEN discuss it, ok?

Now, go away and don't come back until you've seen the movie! you're beginning to aggrivate me.

 

I agree 100% with David Icke. As far as I am concerned, Moore's work doesn't even compare with some of the things Icke has written on, granted his reptilian shapeshifter theory may be a little too far out for some people to digest.

There are so many thought-prevoking books written by David Icke, including Tales From the Time Loop and The Biggest Secret - highly recommended.

 

saddams trial won't start until next year at the earliest...the preliminary hearings are beginning in august...

the rest of it is just media hype and bullshit to show how great bush was for capturing the despotic barbaric ruler that a previous american government installed and funded in the first place...

 

What the hell? That link is garbage and is a classic case of attacking the messenger, and not the message. I've been reading Icke's material for some time now. Of course no two people agree on everything, but I agree on a lot of the things he has said. There's a counter for every counter.

 

It got a round of applause in my local cinema last night - the first time i've ever seen that.

Speaking personally, I am not as informed as I know should be and therefore there was information in this documentary that really blew me away.

I'm thinking that this film will reach millions of people who genuinly want to educate themselves on whats really going on and this can surely only be a great thing.

I'm not excusing ignorance (my own included) but this may motivate people to get more involved and form more well researched opinions.

There has to be at least one thing in this film that even the most informed person can appreciate: the personal accounts from soldiers in Iraq?

Finally - everyone should go see it...at least its not another blockbuster created by cynical, money hungry executives!?

 

I saw the movie last night and it also received an appluse at the end.

This moive was an eye opener to me. I think that this movie does a great job on exploiting bush and the dirty works of congress in the war and 9/11. The movie is basically a badmouth of bush, and the lengths he will go to make a buck for him and his buddies at the expense of others.

I thought that this was a good movie, but there was way too much emotional influence by the way of testimony by members of families who had lost someone in the war or in 9/11. I think that Moore could have dug a little deeper into some of the evidence instead. Anyway, it is a movie that you should see because it offers another perspective on the whole "terroism" situation. Also, Moore does a great job at making bush look like the clown he is.

 

The movie also got an applause here in Alabama. Had to drive over an hour to see it. Our local cinema chain Carmike refused to show it. I think it was a great movie.

The biggest arguement I hear from Republicans is that you could take the footage of Hitler and make the man look like a saint. True but the reason why is Hitler portrayed himself that way on film. Unless Bush has some ulterior motive for looking like a complete bumbling idiot... well, spin only goes so far.

As for a vast conspiracy behind 9/11, yeah, Moore stops short. I can understand that. There is a difference between suggesting there is a smoking gun and proving it and Moore seems to want to stick closer to the facts than what they might suggest.

 

George Bush actually told michael moore to "get a real job" during the movie...

I saw it last night and the theatre was crowded and at the end, it received an applause and when Keep On Rockin In The Free World started playing and the credits started, everyone started clapping to it. After I got home, I just felt like there was so much rage built up inside of me after seeing that.

 

i saw it last night and everyone clapped here too!

The movie made me angry(the facts), but i think Moore put it together well. He didnt make stuff up, he just put all the stuff linked together that we already knew but were not bright enough to put together in our minds.

 

You can get a copy of David Ickes book, Biggest Secrets >>Here<<
Just thought I'd mention that....

 

I don't want to see the movie because Michael Moore is fat and disgusting.

 

If anyone claims to have an open mind, they would do well to enter the following into google and read some of the content on the sites that come up (pay careful attention to anything by Dave Kopel, as he is quite respected, thorough and honest): michael moore columbine lies

If you don't close your mind to it, you can find out a LOT of stuff that Moore misrepresents, fakes, or utterly lies. One big example is the idea of opening a bank account (CD) and walking out of the bank with a rifle -- with the implication that this is somehow dangerous, or invites people to...what? rob the bank with the rifle? After just SPENDING over $1000 required to open the account and be eligible for the rifle??

Another big example is the way Moore splices together UNRELATED segments of footage, particularly of speeches made by the NRA's Charlton Heston (the famous actor, civil rights advocate -- who marched with the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for civil rights well before it was "fashionable" in Hollywood to do so). Moore deliberately misleads the audience to believe that the NRA coldly and callously held a big gun rally / national meeting in Denver right on the heels of the Columbine massacre. He shows snips of speeches by Heston being "defiant" and implies that he was telling Colorado, and the Denver mayor, to basically fuck off. The FACT is that the speeches shown occurred over 9 months later, in NORTH CAROLINA or somewhere, a totally different time and state! AND, the NRA
scaled back its annual meeting -- which had been scheduled several years in advance to take place in Denver, and could not possibly be rescheduled. The meeting was supposed to be a big convention, and ended up scaled back to ONLY the part that was LEGALLY REQUIRED BY THE ORGANIZATIONS NEW YORK CHARTER. They did NOT hold the "elective" parts of the meeting; only enough to satisfy the legal requirements, like board of directors elections, etc.

Why doesn't Moore come clean about this stuff in his movie?

The answer is, he was doing a mud-slinging piece, and did not have any interest in being fair to the very people or organizations he wanted to make look evil and horrible and insensitive. The TRUTH would not have had the desired effect.

As a public that wants to be informed with the FACTS, we should be ANGRY with people like Michael Moore, who don't have any regard for the truth -- only for what they want you to believe, and the truth be damned.

We have a right to be indignant about his lying manipulations. We deserve better.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey

 

Do you really believe that when a person makes a movie that says whatever he wants it to say, that he couldn't make George friggin' Washington look like a "clown"?

The idea is to be discerning in what you believe, when it comes from someone who clearly has an axe to grind, and makes no pretense at being even-handed.

I am distressed at how so very many people are unbothered by the fact that Moore presents only one side of anything, and they take it to be the final word.

Anyone here ever take a journalism class? One of the first things they teach you is your responsibility as a GOOD journalist, is to seek BOTH SIDES to a story.

If I were given a big budget and a camera, and had the time to follow any one of you around, I could put together a film that would make you look like a total fuckin' buffoon. And after I add in my colorful editorial commentary, I could have you looking like such a fucking ASS that people would want to have you deported or hanged. Amazing what I could do if I used Moore's techniques, and also did not give my victim a chance to defend himself or speak on his own behalf.

And you half-wits think this is responsible, professional "documentary." That Nazi propagandist Goebbels would have LOVED the lot of YOU. You'll believe ANYTHING and not bother to QUESTION it as long as it supports your preconceived notions and conclusions.

Pathetic, really.

-Jeffrey