Complete Self Sufficiency?

hi. when i first came to australia i bumped into two university graduates from two separate uk universities who between them couldn't even add a couple of fractions between themselves. i ( personally) would be hard pressed to know anyone from the uk who can do fractions. this basic kind of education has essentially been lost. if you can't do fractions then calculus is essentially beyond you. simple transposition is necessary in maths, again this is just another simple skill lacking in elements of the education system. from my experience of the english educational system and what it taught my peers is that is complete shite - if you can excuse my french. what i was trying to put over before is the need to start your self sufficiency idea from a position of strength.
whilst there's obviously a difference in our uk backgrounds i wish you all the best with your self sufficiency ideas.

 

I think you are quite wrong! Fractions are taught as early as primary school (I remember them well, because I used to hate it), transposition in high school, etc.

I think your "proof" that the UK education system is crap is pretty flawed - you could have came up with much better examples, such as the rather poor geographical and history knowledge demonstrated by school leavers for instance. University graduates are not all maths geniuses - indeed, if we blocked people who performed poorly in high school maths exams from a university education I think we would be denying many great minds an opportunity. For instance, my brother is working towards a professorship and his field is life sciences - I know for a fact though that my high school maths is better than his purely because he has forgotten most of what he was taught in high school. This does not mean the topics were not taught in the first place!

I ask you again though - what on earth does all this have to do with self sufficient living???

 

Hello there, just thought I'd add my twopenneth worth. I've spent the last 18 yrs living what could best be described as a low impact lifestyle. I think that its all a matter of degree really. There are people I know living in Wales (nr Llandod) who live almost free from the rest of 'straight' society, no benefit, no rates, no tax etc. They grow their own food and brew wine and 'special' beer to make a few quid for items that it is difficult to find naturally.(paraffin for lamps, candles etc) They survive on about a fiver a week with two children, and are happy and fulfilled to the best of my knowledge. (by the way, they are not envioromentalists as such, they just dont want to live in a box) I on the other hand have never gone that far, I've been more inclined to use local shops for items that I could'nt grow or keep over winter. Up until moving to where I am now (Herefordshire) I managed without mains leccy,getting all I needed for sounds or a bit of telly from a truck battery connected to a windmill. The welsh wind keeps batteries charged very easily! An oven can be made from an oil drum so bread etc is taken care of. Now that I have a 240 volt power supply and a proper bog I dont really think life has got any better, just a little more comfortable when I take a dump! And access to the internet which I cannot seem to get to grips with. Sorry I waffled a bit just then, but I think my point is just go for it! Even if you dont fend entirely for yourself to begin with, you can always make changes later on as you see fit. Its quite easy to get by without most things we take for granted, and ultimately very rewarding.

 

Ah! Now this is more like it. I totally agree on what you're saying about achieving self sufficiency, or indeed "voluntary simplicity". Going briefly off track...

Re: the truck battery and windmill - I've been researching electricity solutions for a while now and it seems to be a blackart - or at least the companies will tell you as much just to sell you the "right" equipment for the job! It seems though you've gone for a more crude approach - nothing wrong with that! Got anymore info as to how it all works? Do you have any particular charge controller for charging the battery? Then are you simply running an inverter straight from the battery for your 240v appliances?

Electricity is kind of important for me because I want to use a laptop computer and a small milling machine, and the odd power tool, etc. For this reason before I setup a dwelling proper I want to be absolutley sure I can get electricity working to an acceptable level - although I expect my needs to be rather low... generating 1kwh per day would be more than enough!

I agree that the Welsh wind is excellent, particulary on the slopes where the buzzards soar. Although recent low winds across the country as a whole, coupled with a very dry month have made me wonder more about a 3-pronged solution including the other sources. Some day!

Re: internet access. How are you achieveing this? I've thought about long range wifi to the nearest dwelling, but it turns out they havn't got running water, electricity or a phone - so it looks like some kind of mobile phone solution?? Expensive!

 

First off I think people who hear the words Self Sufficient are often led to believe that that means you go off and live in a cave somewhere and collect berries and nuts etc. I have always though more of a self-sufficient community of people. You can produce most if not all of you own food (if you are willing to go without stuff that will not grow in your area like citrus for example), your own electricity through wind/solar power (though this does require parts that you would not be able to produce yourself even if you are building your own wind generator from scratch), you can grow oil crop like sunflower or rape seed and make Biodiesel, build your structure with on site materials like straw bale, rammed earth or cob construction etc. I have tried to plan everything that a community could need and attempted to find a way that everything you need can be produced within the community. The main problem I keep running up against is that unless you are willing to give up on stuff like computers and power tools you will never be able to be 100% self sufficient. That is not to say that you cant get all this extra stuff from junk yards, garage sales etc and still be able to be very self sufficient and still not have to buy new products off the shelf at some market. As for your Internet the best way if there is no phone lines to use would be to get one of those dish systems. I do not know much about them but I have a friend who is living in the desert and that is what he uses.

 

I vaguley remember reading somewhere on the Internet about somebody that built a wind turbine from a self-sufficiency perspective. It was of mostly all wooden construction and I'm pretty sure even had wooden bearings, although the author confessed it wouldn't last for very long! I recall some kind of alternator being made and wire being wrapped around a coil or some such, it actually worked and generated 30-40W or so, with an estimated maximum of 100W. I wish I could find the link!!

It was a fasincating story, but I couldn't help but think it was self-sufficiency for the sake of it (although you could be valid to argue that in the modern world, this is exactly what us seeking an alternative way of life are doing anyway).

Even so, it was interesting to note what could be achieved!

 

I have seen plans for a wind generator that was made mainly out of wood; some magnets, copper wire and the wheel mount from on old Volvo. I will see if I can locate the address for it in my notes and post it here. I am working on plans for a self-sufficient sustainable community of about 30 or so people. So far I think we can produce 80% to 90% of what the community needs and get the rest from what this society wastes. For example a great way to get materials to build with is to tear down old houses that are set for demolition. Most people are willing to let you tear the structure down and haul away what you want. It just means they do not have to pay as much to have the junk hauled away and it keeps that material from ending up in a landfill.

 

You can use old car alternators that have a seperate regulator. Two publications worth getting hold of are "How To Build A High Voltage Power & Welding Unit"
and " A Waste Oil Heater" from Trendline Publishing PO Box 1353, Rozelle, NSW 2039
Tel 02-9809 1434 Fax 02-9809 2145
Bear in mind Australia is ten hours ahead of the UK.
Also check out my web site listed in my profile.

 

found this post interesting enough so i think i will reply.....


many of you dont know me but for the ones that do they know im a die hard advocate of self sufficiency.

so your original topic....

personal dependency, self sufficency whatever term you choose is all relative, but it is also absolute in the fact that if you attempt to enter any form of self, partial sufficency ou need tp be prepared fpr the fact that its going to be hard.

not always physically. but emotionally and physchologically as well.

often times the failure comes for the need of the often thought essentials like tv, electricity, internet... simply becuase its more of a task to prepare, initiate and implement whatever is necessary to make your chosen homesite, luxury capable...

its far simpler to live a total natural self sufficiency than it is to bring some of your comforts to you....

secondly you have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to uphold your commitment to self and accept things as they come...

if you intend to bring power where there is none then you also intend to continue working to pay for whatever is needd to get that done in which case you negate the intention!

food is abundant in the wild if your personal convictions and pride do not hold you back from accepting it!

i speak from experience, i just spent 3 months living solely by my axe and my rifle all the while completing one third of a cabin. and clearing some land....

in having been away and returning i will say this absolute self sufficiency although not impossible is long and hard but satisfying and fulfilling... but to make things easier you will have to depend on anothers strength to pull you through some rough times....

so before you trek off into the unknowns with plans of partial or full self sufficiency i reccommend you get a horse!

 

Dear Readers,
Can anyone tell me of communes, farms, or other alternative living in other countries like Canada out in the mountains and rivers, etc. ?
Hippy Small Town

 

i want to start a self sufficient commune in scandinavia, with the possibilty for 'outsiders' to stay too, and get some income from them, so the first basic things you need can be bought.

 

live in woods, sleep on the ground or in a hole in said ground, gather and kill the food you need. I know from experience hat the biggest problems you'll face are staying warm in the winter (a couple of blankets will take care of this, 3-4 and you won't have any probles, and food. Staying dry can be a problem, but this can be easily take care of.

 

The major obstacles in Canada that I've encountered so far are 1. Finding enough people that are interrested in your area (we have a very low pop to land ratio) 2. WINTER: It can be almost 5-8 months with temp often dropping past the 40 degree Celcius depending where you are which means summer/autumn has to be really productive as far as gardening and agriculture.


As for the Whole Self sufficient I say through it out the window if your still maintaining regular ties with the rest of society, it sounds almost like a cottage or a retreat... why not self sustainable?

 

Seriously, get blankets. If you're warm, food becomes alot less of a problem.

 

selfsustaining i think you hit it right on the head! and lovelight if you have "OUTSIDERS" come and give you money then you would not be selfsufficient would you???

 

in response to hippysmalltown ..there are all kinds of communes in canada but you have to define what kind of commune you are looking for ...there are religious communes ..sects ..retired folks communes ..hippy communes and even co-op communes ....not all of them advertize themselves ...most are small and involve friends or people with similar tastes and outlook for life
coming back to the question of self reliance ...when i was a kid we had no indoor plumbing except for a cold water tap ..all the hot water came from the wood stve ..summer or winter ..no tv and no refrigerator but we did have electricity and a radio which was way more than my grandparents had who lived just 5 miles away in another village ..they had no electricity ...no having these things and they lived a fairly comfortable life ..tools were basic but ingenuity made up for the rest of it ...meat was cooked and then preserved pretty much the same way you preserve garden vegetables ..each house had a big garden and a well that had been dug by hand ..they raised chickens and pigs and cows for meat products ...pigs were fed slop ..stuff that was left over from the table with cooked vegetables and the dry bread and the excess milk the cows produced ...all the buildings were pretty well made with material found on the land except the windows eg.the roof was boarded ,with logs that had been sawn into boards with a broad saw ,then they were covered with a birch bark ,then covered with cedar shingles they had cut and shaped with a frue and a shaving knife .cupbords were fashioned out of boards and instead of doors it was drapes ..same as bedrooms ..a blanket covered the doorway .water was drawn from the well and some were lucky and had the well in the house with an old crank pump .tey had no money so they made do with what they had ...........but before i ramble on too much ,i just want to let you know that you can make a fairly self sufficient lifestyle ,depending on what you want to put into it ..it can be a harsh life but the rewards are also there

 

I kinda have the same idea as you. My husband and I have this fantasy of living in home we built away from most of the world, growing most of our own food, and spending our time together. Of course, we would still need to buy some things or at least trade for it if we were to live a little more comfortable than little house on the prairie. We have even considered communes. The problem is, we really dont wanna be around too many others, and we at least like the idea that if we dont want to socialize - we dont have to. So we are still brainstorming on how to acheive our goals of semi-self suffienciency. Any ideas?

 

I replied to you in another thread elsewhere, that it can be achieved by an individual - so certainly a couple is possible. If you relish a challenge I think the less participants there are the more fascinating it becomes.

 

Self sufficiency would work a lot better with a group of 10-30 or so people rather than a rugged loner or two heading off into the Alaskan bush or somewhere. A group of people can combine various skills & interests, share resources and keep each other company!

The thought of living in the boonies alone or with 1-2 people is freightening, but living in a tribe of congenial types would be much more efficient & also more fun. It's what people are supposed to be doing, living in cooperative groups.

So the important thing isn't self sufficiency so much as finding a group of people to start being self suficient with. I'm convinced that a group of hardworking people could develop a community that survives with very little money. The problem is finding willing people and putting together the start-up costs, which would be significant until the buildings, wind generators, fish farms, bio diesel tanks, etc systems get in place.

It seems that such a project will take a good deal of planning & forethought. So many communities have failed or fail to get past the 1-8 people living in the boonies stage. How do we create a combination of people and land, ideas and resources to create a self-sufficent community?

 

I'm actually pretty glad that someone started this thread, because I have been wondering along a similar train of thought; wondering what it would be like to live self-sufficiently and whether or not it is reasonably obtainable. What a great life it would be to have at least some true freedom away from society!