Zendik Thread gagged

In keeping with the general increase in censorship we're seeing in this country in general, the hip forum has chosen to shut down the Zendik thread. This thread was probably read more often than all of the threads in the communal living area combined, but the moderator found it a bit distasteful, so he shut it down.

I can see where that forum got too long and too rambling, but when Old Wulf wrote that if people want to discuss Zendik they should "do it somewhere else" I became concerned. Are there taboo subjects on the "hip" forum? Should there be?

I think if people want to discuss Zendik they should be able to here or anywhere, or does that violate the Patriot Act?

 

The thread was close to flaming - probably should have shut it down at the beginning - Most every one was just bad mouthing - plus some pretty personal stuff against specific named individuals, some post had to be deleted because of that.
Open discussion was dissed if any one supported the Zendick line.

Was an unbalanced flaming attempt of sour grapes.
that said - i allowed it because people need to know what they are getting involved with in any situation - but to just keep on bashing - .....
Had several requests to delete the thread - have you noticed that it was not deleted
BUT it has been diss-cussed ad nauseum - and nothing new was being added - just the same old bad energy.

So -- ... please go elsewhwere to put your dirty laundry on the line.
Something valid that is not an old rehash of "it was so bad, we were so victimized", is always welcome - but to come to a board where people are trying to build love and examples of what likeminded people might do together and just bash - gees guys - Go complain to Skip - he has the right to throw me out if he thinks I've overstepped - he is the owner - this is not a publicly owned free for all place to constantly bash others - plus this particular forum is usually especially friendly as we try to peacefully discuss and encourage each other in finding alternative ways to move outside the system.
Sorry but this negative slant has had much more than their say - and my brothers/sisters you just could not seem to get on the positive side of it regarding Zendick - so let me ask you - did you learn anything - can you tell us something positive came out of your experience there, or do you continue to be a victim to what "happened to you" because of course, it was never your choice to go there in the first place - right ?
Nor is this the complaint forum and all such further posts will be moved to that forum and if just trolling the poster will be banned and the post deleted.
Please read the guidelines -
Thank you and sorry for anything that any may have taken personal - this was meant to be not aimed at any one person, just about a negative trend that got it's foothold in here with that thread.

Blessing to all along their Way

 

As one who's been an active part in this forum for a few years now, albiet quiet most of the time, I can understand Old Wolf's decision. I've had my share of ups and downs in the communal living situations myself (alot of which Old Wolf himself has heard over the years) and agree that that thread was getting way out of hand.

I read the first 30 pages or so, after that I got bored. More importantly, I got the point. Alot of it was "he said she said" kind of stuff. Back and forth with accusations and whatnots, we all get the point. Not to desensetize anything you went through while you were there, but it was getting very "flamey".

Because of that thread, I would never consider the zendiks myself, but lets face it...enough is enough. Anybody comming to hipforums looking for a commune isn't going to weed through 85 pages to make a decsion on whether to concider that place as a future home or safe-haven or whatever it is their looking for.

Everybody has said what they needed to. Some good, mostly bad, we get the jest of it.

I think you did a good job (wasn't it you?) starting that website for disgruntled ex-zendiks. Thats where this (Zendik thread) argument should continue. Healing needs to be done, that website is a great start.


I wish you much luck on your journey through life greenhornet. I hope you can heal soon from your negative experiences. Take the negative and learn from it, it'll make you a better and stronger person.


Blessings to you,
Bee

 

As a newbie I had a look (purely because there is a sticky thread drawing attention to it), and found various pages of abuse. I think the sticky topic pointer should be taken down at some point!

Anyway, as for free speech, well given the number of pages in the original Zendik thread itself, it seems most people were just going over old ground - and I imagine it's continual presence at the top of the "Communal Living" room tended to become awkward, so I can understand the idea of the locking the thread... peeps can continue within PM afterall.

Indeed, that solution worked well in another forum I use, because when we were forced to use PM certainly the highly charged argument I was involved in quickly resovled itself without other people chiming in, and ultimatly we became friends again!

 

a million miles away .....If I CAN start again

 

11,11

 

So, let's see - if there were a thread about Jim Jones or the Branch Davidians you'd shut it down because everyone was "just bad mouthing" and "open discussion was dissed if any one supported the Zendick[sic] or in this case Jim Jones line"? Have you seen the political threads in this forum? They make the Zendik discussion look friendly. Maybe you shouldn't discuss politics at all: they're far to controvercial, far too interesting!

Maybe the truth can look like "bad mouthing" to you, but sometimes things aren't all warm & fuzzy & phony positive. It's this wishy-washy, subjectivist attitude that gives liberals a bad name. Forums are supposed to promote open discussion and free speech not denial and censorship.

As I said in my 1st post, I realize that the Zendik thread had gotten too long and rambling, and I agree that it got too personal, but gosh, if you can't air your views on an internet forum then where on earth can you?

I agree with closing the thread, what I don't agree with is the moderator saying that the forum's members should "go elsewhere" if they want to discuss Zendik, as if the subject were some sort of obsene taboo.

 

P.S. The REAL hippies from the 1960s for whom this "hip" forum is named often faced deadly serious issues, such as the Vietnam War & racism in a very direct and confontational way, they "bad mouthed Nixon" you could say and might've even "dissed" his supporters. It's only later, that "hip" somehow got watered down, new ageized, coopted by the commercial culture and rendered sadly harmless.

 

Ho Greenhornet! First of all I really want to thank you and second, I learned a lot...tho I didn't read ALL the posts. I grew up around the communes here in Colorado, and have seen casts of thousands of characters...good and bad. And I really vibrated with you! There was a point where I resented being a product of hippy, but now I take what is useful and leave all that other crap alone...because it's crap and one needs to leave it be. I don't agree with the censorship, but can you step back and look at this from outside? Why keep beating the dead horse. I do want to stop others from being sucked dry by energy vampires too. And I also want ppl to be able to learn for themselves...and Zendik WILL get whats coming to them, have faith in that GREAT MYSTERY, that what comes around goes around...Peace & I love you Brother~

 

Hmmm...I guess I have to grant Old Wolf’s point that I’m not learning all that much from the Zendik thread, and don’t have much more to say about it, even if it was fun for me to walk down memory lane by thinking about Zendik for awhile there. I’m a guest here and this website doesn’t belong to me, so if there are certain things that the community doesn’t want to talk about, or a certain vibe that isn’t welcome here...well, I can’t argue with that. I’ll also grant that the Zendik thread took on an inappropriately personal edge, and we shouldn’t say that every aspect of our Zendik experience is fair game to talk about on the internet. I don’t want people talking about my personal shit on the internet, and so to “do unto others,” we’ve got to give the Zendiks the same privacy. And I’ll further agree that there’s more than enough material in that thread to give anyone who’s interested food for thought...so thanks for not deleting it. Finally, even if we “anti-Zendiks” are right about how terrible Zendik is, well, there are other terrible problems in the world that we should think about, too...dissuading people from going to Zendik isn’t going to save the world, now, is it?

On the other hand, though, I think the decision to close the thread down in the interest of fairness to the Zendiks seems to suggest that we who have expressed “anti-Zendik” views really just don’t know what we’re talking about, that we’re “biased” and have neglected to mention all of those good qualities of Zendik Farm. This is to suggest that the overwhelmingly negative experience of hundreds, or thousands of people who have passed through Zendik (represented by a handful of “anti-Zendik” people in that Zendik thread), should be weighed equally against the positive experience of a couple of dozen people who have managed to stick it out at the Farm (and whose success at living at the Farm depends on their never questioning the Farm’s ideology, or reflecting on its glaring problems). Essentially, it’s to agree with the position represented in a number of posts by someone like Dalamar, i.e., that readers are missing out on the truth because only the negative aspects of Zendik are being shown here. Which neglects the possibility that the truth of Zendik might be entirely negative. As Greenhornet said, there’s really no “other side to the story” for Jonestown...it would be exceedingly strange to expect one pro-Jonestown reflection for every anti-Jonestown reflection. Zendik isn’t Jonestown, of course, but it’s got serious problems...but I suppose the thread is long and detailed enough as is to substantiate this claim...

In a way, I’m grateful to Old Wolf, though, because closing the thread means that I’ll have one less excuse for screwing around on the internet....and so I’ll shut up now and take your advice that it’s not so useful to keep gabbing about this.

 

I'm actually on the fence with this one...which doesn't happen too often. I agree that the thread was getting out of hand (and downright OLD), and nothing was accomplished by it. I also agree with Greenhornet that it's wrong to classify something as "taboo" or to marginalize something because of its "controversial" subject matter. If that's what you believe in, you might as well go work in the corporate media, which makes its living by promoting some, marginializing/whitewashing or altogether ignoring others.

As for Zendik itself, I honestly don't know what to make of it. On the surface it seems like a very nice and tranquil place. But I did have an exchange with one of its members via email that wasn't all that nice. I remember being called a "ninny" by a female member because I questioned (in a polite tone) one of the accusations that were made...concerning a new male member who had his shirt off while working outside and was criticized because he wasn't in the best of shape and actually instructed to put his shirt back on...for cosmetic reasons. Apparently, the accusations MUST be true according to the types of replies you get when making inquiries that are deemed "controversial", unacceptable, or all too accurate. Holy jeez, I feel like I'm talking about the Bush administration.

Personally I think the Zendik community needs to meet some anarchist/anti-imperialist groups who can teach them a few things about true egalitarianism as opposed to top-down authoritarianism, and that's all I'll say on it.

But as for the thread being closed...I don't agree with the manner in which it was done (as well as the sudden-ness of it), however I agree that it was time to cut it short in order for everyone to move on to something more constructive...such as organizing our own collectives that strive to provide alternatives to the current status quo of obsessive commercialism. We need to unite and stop bickering about petty things. There are REAL enemies out there and they must be confronted by a revolutionary front.

 

I would like to thank OldWolf for finally locking that gawdforsaken thread. Of course, it was I who originally suggested the idea. There were reasons for this, of course, and I might post a bit about that later. I am looking forward to the day the sticky vanishes too, but that may have to wait. Let's please limit this thread so it doesn't follow in the sick footsteps of the "Zendik" thread. A bit more Laterz.
Hats off to the OldWolf!!
Black Lentil (Black is the color of negation. Hence, I am the negation of all lentils. They upset my stomach.)

 

So "black lentil" how are things at Zendik these days? It's sick how the Zendiks use fake personas to undermine any discussion about Zendik on this forum.

It would be much more TRUTHFUL to identify yourself as a Zendik.

 

Sorry Mister Hornet. I am actually not a Zendik nor am I at Zendik. As far as I can tell, any and/or all personas on this forum may be fake. Of course, I don't believe all of them are- but who's to know? It can't be proven. Neither can the truthfullness of any allegations about Zendik made on this forum. Also, the Zendik thread was locked for a reason, let's not turn this one into another silly slander campaign.
Isn't it time to use this forum for something a bit more interesting and/or enlightening? Maybe we can all continue another exchange in the love/sex threads.

 

WoW...
Closed the Zendik thread because people ad a problem with living at the Farm and wanted to let others know about it?????
What a drag.
I guess letting people go there and have their lives screwed up is better then discussing it........

 

"black lentil" if you're not a Zendik then why are you so hell bent on closing these threads? Also, your style of writing and the attitudes they exude all smack of Zendik.

So then, if you want any credibility at all, please tell what your motivation is.

I doubt if our continuing this conversation on the love/sex threads would be all that enlightening, at least not until we know what gender you are!!!

 

GreenHornet,
No, I am not a Zendik nor am I at Zendik.
I am not "hell bent on closing these threads."
I am an avid believer in Free Speech and public debate. I believe all critiques are worth listening to, and paying close attention to a wrong statement often helps verify what's right. I believe in the Free Marketplace of Ideas. The more an individual is exposed to, the better.
The Zendik thread crossed the line of turning free speach into a slander/libel campaign with too many unfounded accusations made without sources or evidence. The posters "outed" people's personal lives and stayed anonymous when they did it.
Of course, I don't believe all of the critiques are unfounded. The thread includes many honest critiques based on real experience. But there are lies, embellishments, personal insults, petty vengences, half truths, and extreme exagerations. There are posters posing as having experience they don't, some doing this for fun, others out of vengeance.
Again, I don't think all-maybe not even most- of the thread was written for these reasons.
But no reader can sort it out and know the difference.
Zendiks are free to respond to the accusations, of course, but they can't verify their statements on this forum any more then any poster. See, you are already misled to believe I am a Zendik, which I am not. But I am free to play on this and pretend I am if I so choose. And I could defend Zendik as an "insider" and no-one would know. That is why the thread should be locked and eventually-hopefully-deleted.
So this thread could get just as dumb if we let it. Let's stop while we're ahead.
And we're all responsible for the lifstyle choices we CHOOSE to make, so learn from the past to help you better navigate the future. But grudges never help.
My gender? Sorry, but my tits won't fit on the computer screen...

 

It was you who really got into "outing" people's personal lives" at the end of the thread.

So I suppose you're saying that the whole Hip Forum thing should be shut down because no one can verify who the writers actually are with their real names, background checks, & home addresses?

When you read anything, especially on the Internet, you have to consider any "facts" you read on their merits: you can't assume that any of it is true or false. The Zendik thread was just a bunch of people airing their experiences. It's obvious than most everyone who wrote in who said they'd been at Zendik were actually there. They had a right to relate their experiences.

Besides being a way for people to vent, the real value of the thread as it gives anyone who might consider going to Zendik "food for thought." Maybe Zendik's not the radical paradise of truth seekers that it claims to be on its website or in those gloomy magazines that its members hawk on the streets. People should be warned and then they can make up their own minds about who's full of do do and who isn't.

As for all the personal stuff, why would anyone care about who slept with who? Most of the readers don't even know those people. I've met a lot of them & I don't care.

If "black lentil's" not a Zendik then it still baffles me why she? is so interested in silencing the Zendik thread.

 

Greenhornet,
I think I said it all well enough in my previous post.
No other threads on Hip Forums actually do "out" peoples personal lives into the public domain. At least not the ones I have read. Posters stay anonymous and respond to the usernames of other posters.
Of course I can't prove I am not a Zendik here. Nor can I prove much of anything. Neither can you. Which was the point I made so well and effectively.
"It's obvious that most everyone who wrote in and said they'd been at Zendik actually were there"-it's actually not obvious AT ALL. Though I don't doubt many of them were. And others weren't. And many were telling their INTERPRETATION of the truth. And their were plenty of lies-some posted out of vengeance, some for fun. It is NEVER okay to spread shit as fact publicly about peoples personal lives and say it is up to a reader to call bullshit when they smell it. The reader may, after all, have a snuffy nose that day.
Let's let this thread die the natural death it so rightly deserves. When it is time-which I hope is soon.

 

There's no reason to continue this dialog, "black lentil" because we're really not communicating at all. You obviously have no desire to explain what your true motivations are. Did someone personally insult you in thta Zendik thread, or do you just love the ol' Zendik Farm that much? We'll never know.