Which religion is more aggressive in historical perspective?

Christianity vs. Islam. What is your opinion? Which religion is more evil, aggressive and and showed more negativism from historical perspective?

 

Sad Knight

Excellent.
Occam wanders from the repetition of agnosticism and athiesm to the interpretation of history. And your interest seems connected to such religious roots does it not?

Your question is one occam has actually pondered.
So you will get a reply based on some historical understanding.
For occam has read much history .. so he knows just a wee bit.

Both islam and christianity display the exact same levels of
evil
aggression
negativeness.
From a historical and immediate perspective.

For both are the same thing on a level above interpreting history.

Occam

 

Both religions serve the interests of man rather than God so they are both equally suceptible to the influence of evil. The examples of using these religions to justify bloodshed are too many to count. They may have been inspired by God, but in my opinion they are too corrupted to be useful for anything beyond personal worship.

Living in the Western Hemisphere however, the recent history of European colonialism carries a bit more weight for me. Christians were positively genocidal in their subjugation of the New World. Compared to that the Zimmi system of their Muslim contemporaries the Ottoman Empire seems benevolent (compared also to the brutality of their Spanish rivals to productive, useful non-Christians in Europe.)

East of the Mississipi River, Native Americans are nearly extinct, and within a few more generations they will probably be actually extinct. Even at the peak of the Ottoman Empire only one region of south-east Europe was mostly converted to Islam (Bosnia) and that was through the collaboration of the Bosnian nobility.

This is more a product of circumstance as anything else however. Europeans were simply better positioned (by technology and geography) to take advantage of weaker cultures in the last 500 years, and 'primitive' indigenous peoples were far removed from the ideal subject of Old World empires, and so had to be displaced and treated more violently to be transformed into obedient peasants than the Eastern Hemisphere conquests of the Muslims who were already more accustom to such servitude. The Meso and South Americans survive in greater numbers than their Northern cousins in part because of this as well.

Taken at the word of their Holy Books, Christianity does seem more benevolent than Islam. But the core teachings of Jesus have never been seriously practiced by any state using Christianity as a legitimating ideology. Mohammed was smart enough to recognize this incompatibility and so built in exceptions to Do Not Kill and Love Your Neighbor to make it a bit easier for warlords (he himself being the first to take advantage of this.)

 

.......saladin (I know bastardized spelling) v. barbarossa..... hmm.....

 

Bluebong

Exactly.
And this directly links back to occams stamping ground of agnosticism
Jesus had his name stolen by a pack of tyranical bureaucrats.
Christianity, like Islam. Is a power structure built on the gullabillity
and hopes of the ignorant.
Christianity has little to do with jesus christ.
But a whole lot ot do with earthly power
Ironic. if it was'nt so sad.

Occam

 

From a historical standpoint, I'm going to have to say Christianity.

 

Reid

Have U taken into account
1. Christianity is 600 years older than islam
2. Religions evolve.. they have 'phases'

Christianity is a tame puppy now...Because industry and its politics took its power.
But islam is in many places ..'the state'
Remember what happened when christianity was the 'state'

However...Western technological statism and global economic homogeny may just overwhelm islam.
The future will tell.

Occam

 

Yes, Occam, you're right!

The religions evolve. There is not such a big difference between the crucades and the jihad. Theoretically they explain what they do with similar words. But the Muslim started their holy wars later then the Christians nad now the western world think the Muslims are more aggressive.
Also BlueBong83 has right - the religions serve the people rather than Gog.

OK and my next question is: How much time is necessary until the islamic societies stop with the phase of aggressive behavior? What must happen for the Islam to be "a tame puppy" like the Christianity?

 

Islam

 

Probably when they can find better ideologies to justify warfare. They won't stop their aggressive behavior so much as become less Islamic. Muslims will be more free to practice their religion peacefully while the states will be less restrained by the religion's mostly benevolent teachings.

In countries where this already happened however (Turkey) state sponsored violence actually got worse. Iraq was midway through this transformation (also showing increased brutality for it) until the invasion. This trend will probably resume eventually once US troops leave and the conflict becomes more intra-Islamic. My next guess for the upcoming century would be Iran, but their Islam is sufficiently distinct from their neighbors to thrive when wedded to more Western concepts of nationalism.

 

Sad Knight

Pretty much what bluebong said.
&
When national governments become functionally secular.
When religion no longer has an overt voice in those governments.
Then religion can do what it does best..keep the people happy.
And keep itself in existance.

Occam

 

Are those my only two choices?

I mean, there are plenty of other religions that have been nasty, and really everyone has had a turn at subjugating other cultures/beliefs at some point.

Overall, I would have to say the Romans, who would fall into the Christians category at the end would put them on top for aggression, but its a close one.

 

Thank you Samson! Most people forget that Rome, though Pagan in the beginning, stole much of it's empire from the indigenous peoples of Europe and the middle east, enslaved them and later Christianized or outright killed others.

But what the hell, it only lasted for 2000 years. So yeah, it tends to be cyclical as the political climate allows.

And don't anybody jump on me with this crap about Rome being necessary for the economic and social development of the world. I'm a Celt, a barbarian and a warrior and I'm proud of it.

 

Samson

Yes..And the post roman christians knew WELL HOW TO CONTROL.
Because they WERE the roman empire.

And they KNEW how to build one. [a new empire with a new 'emperor']
Called the kindom of god.

Occam

 

Jews, Christians and Muslims--- it's tie.

 

The catholic church
Jesus is blameless, but the great torturers of the middle ages.

 

Up to this point in time, I'd say Christianity has been more aggressive, but if radical Islam grows, that could change someday.

 

Yeah, I think just about every religion apart from Buddhism has done plenty of evil shit.

 

Jim

And every government.

Occam

 

Very true words...