question for the Christian haters

I agree that the bible is written by men, hense "manmade" and is quite possibly biased by the views of the men writing it. Having faith and believing in something that is not "physical" and clearly evident is definatly not the easy road by any means.

I heard of this book and religion by my parents and through the church I grew up in. I kept an open mind and searched my soal and spirituality for the "answers" for clarity and proof. Again, this was not the easy road. I found, for me a true spiritual connection with a diety and firmly feel that it exists and that the bible is an historical account of Jesus and other mens' experiences and interpretations of God.

I truely feel connected with my lord through prayer. I have honestly never had a prayer go unanswered. I have asked for signs with an open mind and the signs had been revealed as I had asked for them. I have meditated, spiritually, and the closest image I have seen is one of a hazy yet brightly glowing figure.

The thing is, I don't need a physical image of God (I don't even think it is a physical existence), nor do I need everything explained in terms of logic and concrete events for me to believe in God. All I need is to remember and attest to what God has done in my life and how he has showed himself to me through prayer.

I agree what I believe and what countless other Christians believe is not the easiest way to believe. It is, in fact the difficult way as far as the human mind is concerned. It is very easy to not believe, to not give it any thought and to not enquire deeply for answers. I choose the difficult road. A road full of ridicule, hatred, and highly criticized justification. But it is the true way for me.

No, I don't "see" many of the actions of God, but I doo "feel" them. This is very hard to explain to a non-religious person.

I am I biologist, I believe in evolution proved to me by the scientific method. But I don't believe in all inclusive evolution. I am experienced in the laws of physics. Through application of asymptotic theories I feel that all of the laws of physics are minutely "flawed" on a scale that is not pertinant to explaining physics on a practical scale.

I consider the law of entropy to be one of the most supportive theories of a God and creation. Physics shows that all natural systems on their own will progress towards a state of lower energy and less order. The existance of our highly ordered species and organs and cells, our planet as a whole, to me is a highly ordered system, requiring the imput of energy which goes completely against the laws of entropy. Random energy and interactions could never generate life as we know it. So as this does nothing to prove the existence of my God, it does reaffirm, to me, the potential need for God to explain life.

I'm sure I did not address all of your questions regarding my faith and would be happy to expand and involve myself into further discussions.

All in all, I am continuisly exploring my own faith and questioning things to myself similar to how and agnostic/atheist questions a Christian. The further down my road I get the stronger I become in my faith.

 

The further down the road you get the stronger you become in your beliefs borne from preconceived notions and reinforced through confirmation bias.

 

I'm not sure? what do you mean by preconceived notions and confirmation bias. I mean, maybe your right. Either way, the force is strong... and growing stronger...

I would say the guiding light to your atheism and the fact that you don't accept religion comes from your own "preconceived notions and reinforced through confirmation bias".

 

No, mine comes from the fact that I explore and accept things without having to see it through my "narrowscope" of biblegodreligion.

 

"I explore and accept things"...


Example... for years doctors have told us that a low fat, low cholesterol diet will result in weight loss and overall lowered cholesterol. However, new studies reveal that this is not true. Rather than double post, I will simply link you to a former post of mine: http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85240

I often explore myself, as learning is essential to our being. However, not everything you study is truth (which can be applied to faith as well).

 

Finish my quote.

 

Sorry, but no. I refuse to finish your quote because it merely implies that every individual who has faith is narrow minded and that is simply not true. The idea of someone being narrow minded or close minded is laughable. Everyone on this earth is close minded when it comes to something they disagree with, and in the eyes of another, would be considered, "narrow minded". For someone to state that they are completely open is hypocritical and fallacious.

 

"Faith" in what? And how do you define "faith"?

And I disagree. I was open-minded enough as a Christian to listen to atheistic arguments that didn't COME OUT OF A CHRISTIAN BOOK.

If I'd been close-minded, I would still be at Sunday School.

 

If I was close minded, in the same essence, I would not have an avid interest in science, medicine, psychology, etc. You missed the point of my statement. The point was that anyone calling another individual, "close minded", is futile because not a single soul on earth is open to EVERYTHING. Thus, in another's eyes, one will always deem you close minded for whatever it is that you choose not to be open to.

 

hi

im sorry but i dont believe that a serial killer can suddenly turn around and become a decent person. it seems highly unfair and ridiculous to me that a mass murderer could go to heaven just because they have repented, but a person from another religion or an atheist will go to hell even if they are brilliant lovely people and have never harmed another person!! wtf that is so hypocritical!!

ps- i dont mean this as a personal attack against you feelingroovy , i just really cant understand this way of thinking!

peace and love
issy

 

no, i completely agree

feelingroovy- if you believe that atheists etc are going to hell cos they dont follow your god, then doesn't it bother you to think that your friends are going to be suffereing in hell to eternity? and doesn't it make you angry with god that he could do this to your friends even though they are good people?

peace and love
issy

 

Many people have this misconception of Heaven, even those whom hold steadfast to God. All are given an invitation, but many will not show. Heaven is the Lord's dwelling. Those whom are there chose to be with him.

If one does not possess the desire believe in God, then having the desire to be in his home is pointless. It would be the equivalent of going to a party at the home of an enemy. "I want nothing to do with you, can I come to your house."....

I understand how you feel, but logically, it does not make sense.

 

yeah but then surely god would rather invite someone who has done a lot of good in their life , then someone who was a mass murderer but at the last moment turned around and said oh i am sorry , iv'e changed my mind i do believe in and want to follow you?

 

so you are saying that only those that truly follow god and want to go to heaven are gonna go to heaven and everyone else is going to hell, if this is what you are saying then how is what i said a misconception?




so god sees anyone who doesn't believe in him as an enemy, he just expects people to believe in him without proof?

 

Something called work. Hmm well let's see. I take classes fulltime, work at a church, and also work part-time with Muslim, Christian and Jewish teens in the Philadelphia area doing interfaith community service projects. People in my field aren't always flourishing in cash..that's not why I do it.

But hey, maybe I should drop it all so I can "do something called work."

 

Thanks. I saw that it was a week and a half ago. Does it really matter when and how many times I respond to your comments?

Secondly, I did see that you wrote prey instead of pray. Well, I don't prey on people. That's it. Not sure how else to respond here.

 

Cool.

 

ive noticed something...when i read about the different ideas for salvation within the 3 main groups of Christianity, the Catholic Church seem to be the one most open to non-Christains being allowed into heaven...

i dont really get that one

and then there is always the universal salvation belief that Jesus' death and ressurection saved all of mankind no matter of creed and such...

oh yeah, all of these are from various wikipedia sites...

 

The athiest doesn't think of god as an enemy. Why would god think of an atheist as an enemy? Would he turn a good honest man away from his house because that man didn't bow down to him during his life on earth when he didn't think this god even existed in the first place?

If I knew a person who did not know me, did not serve me, and did not worship me and I saw he needed help, I would not turn him away as an enemy.

But hey, if you created the universe, you can act however you want I guess.

 

Yea, this is an interesting dilemma that I wrestle with: universal salvation. I believe that God through Jesus died so that all people could be in relationship with God. Yet, how then can Jesus have died for all, and yet only some are saved?

I'm Lutheran, so our questions and concerns don't revolve around hell or who is saved. From what I've learned, we emphasize that "God loves you, and communion is a physical ritual that contains the promise of God's love." Since I don't know why God does or does not "choose" anyone, I don't speculate about hell . . or the end-times. I'm more about the ministry ..of the here and now.