No 2 ID : Campaign Against ID Cards

And then you started off on your anti-muslim rant. The point is not whether they'd be used to target ethnic groups now - the point is that none of us have a crystal ball, and we can't predict whether Britain will ever become a fascist regime. Were it to do so, ID cards would be an incredibly powerful tool to help identify and persecute specific groups of people. It's like a loaded gun - would you leave a loaded gun lying around your house just because there was currently nobody there who was likely to use it?

 

You wouldn't mind a fascist state though would you Jonny?

Who would be YOUR favourite group to round up we wonder?

 

Yes indeed, whats the problem? everyone managed back then.

 

right on fight the evil that is id cards

im really against them
and if they do introduce compulsory id cards i will leave the countrty for a
nicer one with freedom and real civil liberties
no 2 id

 

What, Wales?

 

Honestly people i think this whole no to ID thingy is a waste of time, if the government wants to introduce them they will wheather we like it or not. Where's the problem in having some ID to say who you are etc.

 

Maybe it's to do with the fact that a) the cards will be very, very expensive for most people, b) the truth that ID cards have shown to be ineffective in tacking the problems they're meant to tackle, at the same time opening a whole pandora's box of new ones, c) the sheer complexity and cost of the scheme is unpractical, d) the inevitable infringements of various civil rights which the system would bring. Many people believe quite rightly that governments exist to make themselves accountable to the public they serve, not the other way round. d) the sheer centralisation and comprehensiveness of the system makes it a mouth watering target for hackers, fraudsters and terrorists, who have one database to focus on and have access to sensitive data of millions of people, and potentially ruin lives, or bring the country to chaos. e) in actual fact, pretty much half of the government IS against the scheme (the Tories, the Lib Dems, and various Labour MPs as well as others). f) Most people aren't actually against forms of identification in principal. In fact, we have plenty of them already, but most people in the UK (as is shown in various recent polls) do not want THIS system of identification, largely for the reasons I've outlined above and maybe for other reasons also.

 

no not wales

somewhere in europe most lickely unless they get them aswell

 

if there is enough peiople against them we wont get them

i mean look at the poll tax in scotland we didnt want it
and we didt get it because there was so many people against it

 

The Second Reading of the Identity Cards Bill in parliament is approaching. The Bill creates a whole new set of offences including:

refusal to obey an order to register = £2,500
failure to submit to fingerprinting and biometric scanning = £2,500
failure to provide information demanded by the government = £2,500
failure to attend an interview at a specified place and time = £2,500
failure to notify authorities about a lost, stolen, damaged or defective card = up to 51 weeks in prison and/or a fine
failure to renew a card = £1,000
failure to notify authorities of any change in personal circumstances (including change of address) = £1,000
providing false information = up to 2 years and/or a fine

 

If Britain did becoame a fascist state.. Imho i don't think not having them would really be a problem.. as it would be easy to introduce them at any stage. Having them or not having them would make not a blind bit of difference. ID cards would be the least of our worries.
No we don't all have a crystal ball, neither do we know who they would 'persecute' .. Is your religous/political/ideological beliefs on a set criteria i.e hunting/abortion/climate change/nuclear disarmament/wind farms/race etc etc going to be also on these cards ?.. I don't think so.

 

fuck all wrong with whales man .

 

Fascist dictatorships don't generally appear overnight. The point at which ID cards would become a particularly dangerous tool would be at the early stages as we moved towards a totalitarian regime. At such a stage, ID cards could be difficult to introduce, but useful if already in place.

So why do you think the government want them if they're of no use?

It won't be on the cards, but with the increasing centralisation of data and data sharing between governmental organisations, it's hardly gonna be rocket science to extract a political profile from an ID card.

 

Can i be so rude as too say

'when i read the first post.. the ridiculousness of it scared ME'

 

Then-you're-in-the-wrong-place.

Find-all-this-stuff-out-for-yourself-Matthew-stop-coming-here-expecting-us-to-go-through-it-all-for-you.

Check-out-the-rules-of-this-forum...if-you-don't-know-the-ins-and-outs-of-this-issue-please-take-the-debate-to-the-main-UK-forum-cos-you-and-a-few-others-are-starting-to-annoy-me-with-your-blatent-lack-of-respect-for-the-purpose-of-this-forum/message-board.

And-that-goes-out-to-the-people-using-it-to-hurl-abuse-at-people-too...

Gahhhhhhh

 

In the current global climate, I'd agree with you. But times change. Do you really think the world will stay as it is forever? You'd have fit in well in ancient Rome

No. I'm saying that like all politicians, they have a vested interest in controlling people.

For starters, you could run through every credit card transaction that someone's ever made at the touch of a button. Ever subscribed to a political magazine? Ever made a donation to a left-wing charity? Ever paid your hip forums supporter fee with a debit card? Piece of piss. Then when you account for mobile phones and sattelite tracking, monitoring whether someone happens to be in the vicinity of any particular protest event would be a piece of piss too. Political profiling's easy if you have the resources.

Again, I'm not paranoid enough to think the current government is spying on all its citizens.... but all the tools are being neatly slipped into place.

I agree. But I don't pretend to be able to predict the future, and I don't like the idea of making life easy for a police state that might one day come to be. I doubt the Germans expected Hitler, y'know.

I thought we were having an intelligent conversation. Is there any need to be a glib, sarcastic little tit when things are going so well?

 

Times do change, we would have to have taken tight control from day one [whenever that was] of Democracy within this country. If every 'infringement' as some people may have seen was not implemented, who is to know we would be any better/worse off. I have never read a historical precident for such a scheme other the 'Natzi germany' and thats a bit conveniant don't you think ?.
Paradigms change, the world turns and nations fall. The introduction of previous 'controls' have not irrecovably ruined our way of life.. in fact we probably have more 'liberty' now.
Removing I.D cards from the equation at this point is not going to alter the future any more than, previouse 'introductions' of the past imho. At what point do things start to slide, i am sure there is a multitude of arguements for a lot of legislation. We just incoporate changes as they come about, there is far too much advocacy in this country for anything to draconian.


I appreciate it is all about perspective, and sure i may lack it .. just my humble opinion.

Controlling us as so we don't cause chaos and anarchy.. and why not.

As it is argued that one sysytem is beyond the goverments ability .. a complex multi faced system would surely be 'beyond the stars' .. No ?.

Tools such as CCTV , that save lives and catch criminals .. i understand the other side of the coin, but sorry, the UK is too banal for a Orwelian style future imho.

Oh no not 'Natzi Germany' please....No.

I apologise about that.. :&

 

I have found out.. looked it over .. and thought about it... I do know the ins and outs of the issues [to my own humble opinion] . As this thread is not original [just a reminder] ..and was filled with quite a lot of 'debatable' points .. i thought i would be alright.. if i am showing no respect.. then off i bugger.. or is that i will bugger off. ?.