Why capitalism?

Tell that to the Armenians, the Chechens, the Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, etc etc etc...

 

sorry to cause confusion, when i said soviets i mean the workers councils that ruled in russia before stalin.

 

capitilism because we're competitive sods, and in communism the cheaters usually get power.....

 

there has never been communism before, as there has never been a state of being in which there wasn't a state.

 

I once read that both capitalism and communism are representative of two serious psychological disorders. Capitalism is egocentricity on a mass scale-the inability to recognise that others have needs, and the seriousness of their suffering. Communism is the opposite disorder, where we have lost our sense of self-we cannot separate our own needs from those of everyone else. We do not recognise that a large sense of self is essential.

And so to put it simply, neither is healthy.

Xx

 

Hello verseau (does that mean watering can?)

Very interesting point. Buddhists, also, have a minimal sense of self. But that's beside the point.

I'm not sure I agree with what you red about communism. I guess it's all theoretical anyway as it hasn't been succesfully tested but I see communism as far more individual than capitalism (how that equates to self is debatable). I guess in capitalism you can have a sense of self, as long as you don't mind that you are one of millions who are all valued in the same way. In the society I'm trying to bring about (and I hesitate to call it communist because of connotations), we'll have skills, art, and work but, and this is a big but, no money. "How does that work?" I hear you cry. Checkout my compadre KBlaze's thread; http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106687
We both independantly came up with the revelation that money doesn't achieve anything. For every person who would only work if they were paid, there is a job (a boring one at that) created by the need to look after money.

 

God we've had this dicussion before, its because the ruling class sees them as a trheat and does all that's in its power to invade and destroy them externally and internally.

 

Hey Andy...have been meaning to get back to you! Have just been so busy:-S But thank you

Yeah Verseau is Aquarius(the water pourer)

I completely agree with you about money. Money baffles me...people actually kill eachother for bits of paper with pictures on:-S But then i dont really understand a lot of things...
I suppose money is just another example of how people cannot appreciate anything unless it is physical, tangible, and they can stick it in their sweaty pockets.
I also agree with you that the point about capitalism has far more significance, and that its perhaps more true to call that an illness than communism. I will check out your site

Anyway thanks again, and ill get back to you in full shortly

Love-Maxi.Xx

 

I think it's important not to understand money. People who understand money can give you good reasons for, for example, having grain mountains rotting away while people in the world are starving. It's a lot harder to get what you want out of the world when you don't understand money and business (as I'm discovering) but I think you can live with a clearer conscience, or at least feel outrage about the right things.

The worst thing about it, money that is, is that, for the worst offenders, money is not even tangible. It's numbers on a screen, bits of information in a computer. Its value (be it on a screen or in your wallet) is completely imaginary. The problem is that everyone imagines the same thing.

Maybe I do understand money. Better than most and that's why I refuse to live my life in the pursuit of it. I am aware, for example, of millions of ways to make money without doing anything useful. It's not like they're easy jobs. They're boring, unstimulating, often take years of training, sometimes risky and always unrewarding unless you value money and nothing else, but there you go, they exist. Funnily enough, in working towards a money-free society, it's these people's (accountants, shop assistants, traders, bankers, lots of lawyers, the list goes on) freedom that I'm fighting for.

Oh and stop thanking me If you want to thank me, go to France and learn French, meet lots of nice French people and have a great time. What other A levels you doing? (you can answer by PM if you like as it probably doesn't have much to do with 'why capitalism')

 

same

 

Capitalism is good because you have to work to earn what you get. Your not intitled to the right of having a job or money, you earn it.

 

Freedom is not possible without a free market, wherein we are free to barter, get a good deal, a bargain, or get ripped off, but the key word is free.
We choose, not the state, and like democracy, capitalism is the worst form of societal exchange, until you look at all the rest...
Thomas Jefferson commenting about the wealth of the working being given to those who don't work is ironic to me since he had a whole community of slaves that he profitted greatly from. Is that what he meant?

 

You're not entitled to a job? What's that all about? Doing a job is essentially helping someone out. Why should you have to plead and beg to do something that is helpful and useful to the person you're doing it for?

That quote from Jefferson, aside from the hypocrisy Blackguard mentioned, shows to me that he could not see beyond a world with money. If you took money from those who would work and gave it to those who didn't, then it's quite likely society would collapse or whatever. But that's not the same thing as stopping using money and allowing personal responsability rather than just purely financial responsability.

 

Read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. That is why capitalism.

 

I've been meaning to read that book... now I have a reason.

 

Atlas Shrugged is a must read. And also Fountainhead.

Ayn Rand is one of the most revealing writers of the 20th century.

Unconsciously and unintentionally, Ayn freely reveals through her heroines, both her own deep rooted sado-masochism, and the deep perverted sexual impulses behind the Hierarchy of Capitalism.

Ayn, rejected as ugly by our Primate Sexual Hierarchy, reveals through her fictional heroines, her own insecure phantasies of being a Prime-female sexually-desired by the Hierarchy's Alpha-males.

Ayn reveals the Collectivism of Capitalism, as we unconscious ant-like insects impulsively and slavishly serve the Primate Sexual Hierarchy of Business and Capital.

Ayn reveals all these hairy smelly goings-on while remaining completely clueless.

Perfect Stream of Consciousness, unintentional and spontaneously revealing.

 

I see Gilligan like to quote Thomas Jefferson, the man who owned 187 slaves.

 

It should be noted there are examples of pure free market capitalism in existance today, I assume everyone has heard of Somalia. There is absolutely no centralized governement, it is governed by a group of warlords who have little or no influence outside thier own regions. There is no government regulation, no minimum wage, no labor unions, none of the things free market capitalists hate.

Afganistan is pretty close as well, there is a central government, but it has no power outside the capital city, the rest of the country is run by a group of warlords who have little or no influence outside thier own regions.There is no government regulation, no minimum wage, no labor unions, none of the things free market capitalists hate.

Of course there is always Iraq. Brenner, before he turned over power to the provisional government, removed almost all the barriers to free trade in Iraq. The living conditions inside the green zone are tolerable enough, but the areas not fiercely patroled by US and British forces are run by a group of warlords who have little or no influence outside thier own regions.There is no government regulation, no minimum wage, no labor unions, none of the things free market capitalists hate.

So, if free market capitalism is such a wonderful idea, why are there no Walmarts in Somalia ? Why hasn't Dell opened a Call Center in Afganistan ? Why is Iraq's oil production at 10% ? Why don't these countries have a large vibrant middle class ? Why isn't the employment rate in these countries at 99% ?

I am not saying communism or socialism are better ideas, I am simply pointing out, that in the real world, pure free market capitalism does not work either. In order for it to work there must be a hierarchy of governement to build and maintain infrastructure and provide security, in order to do this, they must collect taxes. Providing security does not just mean a standing army, local police forces and fire departments, security also means, safe working conditions, clean water, breathable air and uncontaminated food. This means regulating the people and businesses who have proven time and time again that left on thier own will not do the right thing.

So to paraphrase a popular right wing saying, if you don't like America and its government regulation, minimum wage, labor unions and all the things free market capitalists hate, may I suggest you move to Somalia.

 

actually I think Jeferson saw his hypocrisy...

 

Number6 makes excellent points.
But the reason all the countries you named are in crappy situations is because they are one divided nation surrounded by other nations in this competition man has with himself.
Free market ideas work better if the whole world is on board, which we should be by now, good lord, earth is one nation and I'm tired of all these retards and their petty squables.
could have left that last part out.