i believe george bush is not lying about 9/11

can someone from the side that supports the official 9/11 story tell me y he/she believes george bush is telling the truth? when there is so much around that could make u doubt the official story y do u continue 2 believe that the 'conspiracy theories' must be false? i'm not asking 4 counter-evidence, btw, i'm asking u 2 speak from the heart.

 

I don't believe any of it because it is all elegant nonsense .. you only have to read some of the posts within this forum and how contradictive they all are, to see that.

Scenario:

Bush and his buddies from around the world, recruits a bunch of supposed muslim fundementalists to fly some planes (these planes may also have been carrying missiles on there undercarriage) into buildings to create a 'New pearl harbour' . This next bit is the best: at the same time or sometime later depending on what you believe, detonates bombs from the basement of the several of these buildings ... having failed the first time around in 1993 (Ramzi Yousef being a patsy for the US goverment) ..

Then to create world wide 'terror'... bombs several other locations around the world.. most recently London.. The people that carry out these attacks are merely carrying out the orders of a secret organisation that runs the world.

The public face of this secret organisation, and writes the american foreign policy is a think tank in the guise of PNAC...

Disinformation perpetuated by warmongers and govermental agencys post 'independant' accounts and scientific evaluations to keep the 'sheeple' from finding out the truth...

Oh and did i not mention this goes back to WW2 and the west especialy GWB family (ofcourse) funding hitler and his regime... GWB now being the second incarnation of Hitler (for good measure).

All of this is about oil....by the way.

My Scenario:

A bunch of nutters crash into a few buildings. Several of them (buildings) not being that well built or designed for such a event... fall down...killing thousands of people.

It is not the fact thet GWB might/is telling the truth (and the other nations involved...i hate how americentric all this is).. it is the fact that from just this last London bombing hours later the 'conspiracy' train came to town.. blissfuly ignoring all the evidence supporting the fact that it is all orchestrated by a loosly related bunch of religous nut cases... The more the conspiracy grows the more excuses for the action of these nutters is perpetuated...wich i think stinks...

 

I just think that it is simplier to believe that a bunch of disenfranchised middle-class muslims propelled by ideology flew planes into buildings in an attempt to destroy the liberty and economy of the greatest nation on earth. Guess what, they did.

 

Oh yeh matthew, you actually believe that a 19 terrorists from Saudi Arabia, trained by AL Queda could actually hijack 4 planes simultaneously, stooping the smartest and most well funded and defended airspace in the entire world, and crash one of them into the heaviest armed building in the entire world, and another 2 crashed into the WTC, With their transponders off for well over half an hour, But Payne Stewart, in his private jet, goes off course for 18 minutes and is sorrounded by F-16s and fighter jets, 18 minutes! yet the FTAA and Norad could not scramble any jets in 30 minutes, they released 4 F-16s to Payne Stewart's PRIVATE JET and could not send ONE F-16 to deal with 1 of the 4 possibly hijacked planes with their transponders off, and who were moving way off course. How can you not believe something is wrong there?

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

fair enough. so ur going 4 simplicity and national pride.

 

so what, u despise the ppl who purvey the alternative theories? ur pov is borne out of despising the conspiracy theory ppl?

 

the simple fact is..no plane can enter dc airspace without transponders & radio contact without risking being shot down..let alone one that was already known to be hijacked..& by hijackers who already flew 2 planes into buildings..the simplest logic explains that they must have been alowed to do exactly what they were suposed to do..
if you dont beleive me..go fly an ultralite into dc airspace & see for youyrself

 

i know what u mean but y u believe something is not wholly dependent on what the evidence might or might not be. it's usually connected to emotional reasons like national pride, or loathing of another specific group (as cited above). i'm hoping more pro-bush ppl can identify what are their emotional reasons.

 

It's kindof an occam's razor type of deal.
I'm not saying that i'm definately right, or that america's the best thing to happen since a bunch of people settled down and stopped hunting and gathering, but i still think that it is the freest country in the world today, and i rather like it here. The fact that this site exists only confirms that.
I think that most of the time the plethora of conspiracy theories out there only discredits them, and mostly they are based on pretty thin evidence by people who don't really know what they are talking about.
Besides, if some shady shit did go down we are never going to know about it so what's the point of even trying?
The government probably is lying, that's what they do, but i don't think that they'd destroy their own economy.

 

so, ultimately u think that the govt can be trusted 2 do the right thing if 4 no other reason than they wouldn't act against their own interests, and america the place, the economy whatever IS their interest too. is that kinda right?

 

People are entitled to believe what they want to believe. I believe the government did it. That is, a rogue element within the government. There are just so many holes in the "official" story. Then I look at the motive and who stands to gain, coupled with how governments have aided and used terrorism to their benefit in the past, and the answer is clear.

Notice the people who attack those critical of the "official" story cannot explain why NORAD stood down, or why WTC-7 collapsed just six hours after the towers collapsed, even though it wasn't hit by a plane and was admitted by its leaseholder that it was "pulled" (referring to a controlled demolition).

They cannot explain why terrorists with meager flying abilities had the skills to so precisely crash three out of four jetliners into their intended targets, while flying hundreds of miles by sight alone to locate these same targets.

They cannot explain why, according to mainstream news reports, that as many as 8 of the alleged 19 9/11 hijackers are still alive and well today in the Middle East.

They cannot explain why officials in our government had foreknowledge and had canceled flights for that day.

I find that, most often, those most critical of those critical of the official story have never once researched the attacks themselves, other than for what the mainstream media has told them to think. Then they have the audacity to attack us for the way we think. Well, at least we think. Perhaps some people should try it for once.

 

damn right...you cant trust the government...acting like sheep isnt going to get us anywhere...

 

so which is more a motivation 4 u: the fact that the govt is acting corruptly, or the fact that, as u put it, ppl are being sheeple?

 

I believe the official story because the conspiracy theories are idiotic. They dont even come close to passing th Occalms Razor test. They tend to be believed by the same people who believe in UFOs, ghosts, alien abductions, astrology, and pretty much anything.

The conspiracy theorists here have a tendency to define independent thinking as going to conspiracy theory websites and then repeating everything they hear, if they can even be bothered to put it in their own words. They refuse to investigate anything themselves and anrgily denounce anyone who does.

If someone could come up with a conspiracy theory which was actually coherent and didnt require absurdly complicated explanations to make it all fit together, id consider it. But so far the standard has been pretty low.

 

that's interesting because that's what rat accuses the people who believe the official line of doing. exactly what ur saying. u can't both be right. but can u both be wrong?

 

I have no faith in the U$ government, and its no secret that they funded bin laden and left him with a network. They might well have jsut let 9/11 happen.

 

No i don't despise those kind of people, i have my own 'alternative theory' just like others . If i despised that point of view, would i really spend so much time reading and responding...I don't have contempt with the idea, just the way some people twist the knife, thats all. I think it stinks, but i know it is just another alternative theory...that i guess i am trying to understand.

I notice people have had a few cheap shots even within this thread..thats what i dislike, it becomes a little personal...and irrational.

I did sound dismisive, i apologise about that.

They did not:
Implant a fundemental religous belief
Tell him to bomb infidels
Alienate him from his whole family
Make him spread vile hatred for 'western society' through out the world with his 'network' .

He is a rich intelectual with a god complex (literally).

excuses
excuses
excuses

^^^se i am at it now

I could believe the hijakers could have been in contact with the goverment before they crashed into the buildings. I could believe they made demands that we know nothing of at this moment in time.
Having so many people under your control, is a powerful bargaining chip.
I could even believe the building was 'pulled' to stop it from not toppling over instead comeing down within its own footprint. These things are terrible within themselves.
It only seems spectacular because it was so spectacular.
If it had been avoided this whole thing would be a centre page spread in the sunday newspaper for about a week.
I can buy into certain elements of this 'conspiracy' but then people bring in the London bombings (for e.g). That our goverment was involved in that (as our own 'pearl harbour'). Come on, it is slightly fanciful in some regards.

 

I think we all think .. some people more than others. The people that just spout 'fuck bush' 'no blood for oil' 'bomb the bastards' etc etc don't think.

 

Why do Americans believe things like this? Is this drummed into them from day 1? Many other countries around the world would definitely disagree with both of those comments. When I left the UK I didn't for 1 second consider going to the US to live.

Back on subject-ish, all governments lie - it just depends to what degree. I think the consiracy theorists may have something...... but they do get a little bit far fetched. I am in no doubt though that you can't trust any goverment.

 

matthew, the U$ certainly magnified bin ladens importance though and made him a force.