Pushing conspiracy theory? Why?

I'm fascinated by the mind-set of conspiracy theorists. Some people, like our friend rat here, seem to live their lives surrounded by paranoia and conspiracy. Why do they do it? What compels people to adopt this bizarre way of thinking?

I analogize it to marxism; both provide the believer with a way of thinking about the world - marx in a fairly intelligent way, conspiracy theorists in an infantile and obvious way. But both allow the believer to analyze any event he can find in terms of his pet theory - an ardent marxist can find the marxist truth in any historical or political situation, and the conspiracy theorist can find a conspiracy anywhere. That's what makes it so compeling to teen-agers who desperatly want to find some reason in a confusing and irrational world.

 

the fact that the 1980 soviet radar system could see a ball bearing awry and at that time ours was better, and then you take into account the incredible rate of improvement of technology since then and the fact that all of those planes were no where anywhere near where they were supposed to be and I begin to ask why were people surprised? any passenger liner shows up huge on radar, they have round bodies, they are not stealth planes so how the fuck did people miss this?


and for those people who said "I had a friend\family member on flight ***"

guess what, the united states government has killed inconvenient people before, they will again, learn to deal with it.

 

That's interesting, because I am fascinated by the mindset of people who cannot think beyond their own limited reality, that has been virtually programmed into them via government education/indoctrination and corporate media propaganda. You can call my way of thinking "bizarre," which I take as a compliment. This means that at least I am thinking, which is more than can be said for most people -- yourself included.

Marxism is one of the biggest lies ever perpetrated on man. There is nothing intellectual about marxism, other than for the fact that it is trendy amongst Leftists, and trendiness is often falsely labeled as "intellectual." I've never met a marxist that can form a proper sentence, let alone discuss politics. They are poseurs all the way! Karl Marx is one of the biggest frauds in history.

 

(quote)
That's interesting, because I am fascinated by the mindset of people who cannot think beyond their own limited reality, that has been virtually programmed into them via government education/indoctrination and corporate media propaganda. You can call my way of thinking "bizarre," which I take as a compliment. This means that at least I am thinking, which is more than can be said for most people -- yourself included.
(end quote)

Hehehe. If you could see what goes on in my head, you wouldn't call me programmed!

Seriously, do you really think that ALL of your conspiracies are true at once?

Have you not considered the possibility that they *want* you to beleive all this crap for some hugely evil reason? How can you be so sure that it's *these* conspiracies that are true, not something far greater?

I doubt very much that you think a great deal about any of these silly theories; it's a kind of psuedo-intellectual posing with which I'm familiar - I used to be very fond of explaining to everyone how everything in the whole world could be laid at the door of the evil multinationals, and how these few rich men were running the whole world from their boardrooms, etc. etc.. But it's bollocks. It's just a really easy way to look at things so that you don't have to think about the real issues.

 

Behold the wisdom of Rat! Yet who is it that says everyone who doesn't think like him is brainwashed? Who is it that says everyone who doesn't think like him is either extreme left or extreme right? Who gets angry with people, not just for disagreeing with him, but for daring to discuss anything except the Illuminati and their shape shifting time travelling lizard jews (oops I mean zionists)?

Lets reread that quote again ("I question the motive of people who want to push their own rigid belief system on others") and then put it in the context of some recent Rat posts (not the ones he cuts and pastes):

 

Purple

“what do you expect us to do? be good little obedient citizens--just like mr. bush 'n cronies want us to do?”

I think this might be part of your problem one that I think is shared by many conspiracy theorists. You seem to think that not believing in your own particular choice of conspiracy theories means you have to support the present Republican government. Are you honestly saying that we have only two choices?

I mean Bush himself typified this kind of thinking when he declared that “you’re either with us or against us”.

Are you honestly saying we can only either be supporters of Rat’s certain type of conspiracy theories or supporters of Bush?

**

“why do you think we really went to war with iraq? you think spreading freedom by sanctioning and through militant control is legit? you think IRAQIS blew up the twin towers--that's what our government lied to us.”

I think you should check up on what the views are of the person you are attacking before posting.

But as I’ve said this might be part of the problem. Because I think Rat’s conspiracy theories are bunk, you seem to believe that I’m all for the present Republican policies.

The main reason for the invasion of Iraq, in my opinion, was strategic and was set out in the earlier PNAC documents. The 18 or so ‘enduring bases’ that are presently either built or being built in Iraq were the main concern of those behind the project.
Oh there were other reasons as well but that was the main one.
I was not against the overthrow of Saddam but I was against the US policy because it didn’t have as it’s main concern the wishes of the Iraq people. It had all to do with what a small group believed was in the US’s own interests and was therefore going to cause a lot of needless destruction and most probably would fail. My views have not changed.

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I think your problem is that you are angry and not thinking straight just as the majority of Americans that supported the invasion of Iraq were angry and not thinking straight. You feel like you were hoodwinked and to a large degree you were. But it seems to me you are just falling into the same mistake, the US government put forward a ‘conspiracy theory’ of it’s own about Saddams WMD’s they bundled together a lot of supposition innuendo and opinion and sold it to the American people as the ‘truth’. This is exactly what people like Rat and other conspiracy theorists do, they link a lot of supposition innuendo and opinion and claim it is the ‘truth’.

“Don’t get fooled again” would be my advice.

**

Also I’m left wing and think Bush is right wing and I’m against his policies for that reason but I better remind you that Rat is on record as saying that at least some of Bush’s policies are too left wing for him.

In my opinion the political philosophy that Rat follows would make people like the Bush family and individuals like Cheney a lot richer and more powerful. I have set out a number of times in a number of threads why I think this and so far Rat has not been able to refute any of my criticisms (although he has called me a lot of names).

I would ask who you want to support people like Rat who wish to give more power to the US’s rich elite but who believe in wacky conspiracies. Or can you support one of the many groups that think that ‘conspiracy theories’ are just silly distractions from the real job that needs doing: making society a better place for people to live in.

It is up to you.

 

So back to the question that for some reason Rat and the other conspirators don’t seem able to answer.

What are we to do?

I mean Rat says that any political party can be taken over by the banker/Jewish conspiracy so according to him you cannot vote in change.

So what are we to do?

He also things that any organisation can be controlled by the same conspiracy so it would seem difficult to put together a revolution.

So just what are we to do?

What things can be done to counter all these powerful conspiracies?

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It is an important question, because if as Rat seems to indicate there is nothing people can do what is the point in telling us?

Some in the conspiracy camp seem to think that there will be at some point a ‘critical mass’ when in some future time enough people (or all of them) will realise that the world is run by ‘lizards’, ‘Jewish bankers’, ‘illuminati’ or the duracel bunny, and will do ‘something’.

All I’m asking is what is the ‘something’?

**

It is very clear that Rat is anti-left-wing and from what we can tell he is right wing and libertarian. He has claimed in the past that ‘libertarian’ policies are the only thing that the Jewish bankers fear. But also admits that if a libertarian group looked like they would gain power they to would be taken over by the very same conspiracy and made to do their ‘evil’ bidding.

So again I was confused as to what we are meant to do to stop the conspiracies if people really believe that these things are going on they must have some kind of idea as to stopping it? Don’t they?

 

Fuzzy

Yes one of the ways to control peoples actions is to make them afraid and disorientated to try and to get them to hate and to lash out.

But the point is that conspiracy theories like Rats are very similar to ones made up by governments, they can both be used to make people afraid, disorientated and make them hate and lash out.

Think about it Rat argues that the world is run by a shadow government controlled by Jews and bankers who have agents everywhere watching and reporting. All governments are controlled by this conspiracy and it gets the governments it controls to do things like 9/11 so that it can gain more power.

According to Rat it is no use trying to vote this conspiracy out of power, all political parties or groups are (or will be) controlled by the conspiracy.

Presumably also those that talk out against it are ‘marked men’, risking their lives to tell us the ‘truth’. (does everyone not now realise just how brave and fearless Rat is).

If that is not about trying to cause fear and division I’m not sure what is?

 

I know what's going on here: Rat is part of a huge conspiracy to make the left look so damn stupid that they lose all credibility.

Look at the facts:

- Qui Bono? Clearly rat's idiotic rantings don't benefit him or us - in fact, the only people that benefit are the established political elites, because people see this shite and turn away from any kind of alternative politics.

- The tactics: Rat demonstrates a level of technical sophistication in his postings (using fonts, cutting and pasting &c.) which only a puppet of the lizard-men could possibly claim an ordinary man colud posses. HOWEVER, guess which organizations have JUST THESE SKILLS? Yes, that's right! MOSSAD! And the CIA!

- Err...

- That's it. I can't be arsed to mock him anymore - it's just too easy.

 

also the reppression of anality is the precursor of a civilised age, this primitive drive suppressed and sublimated into endeavour creates the surplus of capital so necessary to civilisation. or if u don't believe that go fuck urself. literally.
im sorry i odnt know what the hell youre talking about.
anality? you mean like being anal retentive?
so youre saying our repression of being anal has made us develop the urge to form civilizations?

and to the other guy, youre right, you never will escape the "hierarchial society" prison you'be built for yourself in your mind if your mind is too weak to undergo change.
sorry i didnt realize this is completely off subject now

 

i don't even know what to say, bulbus, you misunderstood almost everything.

the problem is not conspiracy theories--whether they are true or not.

the problem is:

... people who readily accept government propaganda.
... people who don't stand up for their rights.
... people who don't question the government's action.
... people who are happy sitting there and watching.

i don't care if you're a republican or a democrat or something else. we all have a duty of "checks and balances"; you know the government doesn't do it...

Rat, are you in favor of Bush 'n friends getting RICHER, as bulbus says?

 

Purple

I can only stand by what I say in my many post read them and make up your mind as to what I think of politics or come out and ask me.

As to what Rat’s views are try reading through the thread –

‘Tribute to Immigration's Terry Anderson’
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87769&page=1&pp=10

 

Whenever someone calls Godwin's Law, I like to read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meanor's_Law

 

No, most certainly not. That has become a chorus line with Balbus, who cannot debate in a reasonable way, since he doesn't have the facts. Therefore, he keeps throwing out the same old accusations over and over.

It's funny because on the Left, people believe their form of government benefits the common man. But liberalism/socialism has always placed more power into the hands of government, thus the rich and powerful controlling that government. All this talk of it benefiting the common man is little more than a cover story to be sold to the ignorant masses.

Keep in mind, I am neither Left or Right, I am simply pro-freedom. People have accued me of being a communist leftie, while people like Balbus like to label me an extremist right-winger. I am neither of those. I am only after the truth, and my belief is that the truth does not align itself with any particular group or label.

 

Not the most intelligent post il ever make in my life but here it goes;

balbus your an idiot

and so are the rest you blind fools who like to use your ignorance as a tool to discredit rat, or anyone else who makes an effort to help you understand the world alittle better.

 

Rat this is so disingenuous that some would say it was out and out lies.

You might believe that the policies you seem to say you support would not make the already rich and powerful richer and more powerful but the problem is that I have put up my reasons for thinking they would and you have no argument to refute my claims.

You therefore cannot say with any honestly that they certainly would not make the US elite’s more powerful you can only say that..well..what? That it is your unsubstantiated opinion, a hunch based on guesses? Whatever it is it is a long way from a certainty.

If you wish to come back to one of the threads in which we were trying to discuss what seem to be your views we might make things clearer (but you would have to do more that just call me names)

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As to your claim to be neither of the Left nor Right.

You have posted many times about you dislike for communists, socialists, lefties and even liberals. Oh I know you dislike Bush and the neo-cons but you are on record as saying that you think them too left wing in many of their policies.

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As to your claim to be “simply pro-freedom” it is meaningless unless we know what you mean by ‘freedom’ I mean both Bush and the neo-cons claim to be pro-freedom, think about it someone is unlikely to get the support of others by claiming to be anti-freedom. The only way that we will understand what your version of ‘freedom’ means is if we discuss it.

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Fuzzy and Boring

You are not saying anything, what do you mean when you claim that people that don’t just accept Rat’s supposition, innuendo and opinion as fact are idiots or have their heads up their arses?

Why don’t you show that you can think for yourselves by telling us why those that criticise Rat opinion are wrong in a rational and coherent manor rather than (like him) call people names.

As for Bush and Blair see the post above are you saying that someone can only believe in Rat’s conspiracy theories or support Bush and Blair that there are just no other alternatives. To me that view would be idiotic.

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Interesting that we have all these conspirators but not one of them can answer the question –

What are we to do?

Why is that?

I will print it again –

What are we to do?

I mean Rat says that any political party can be taken over by the banker/Jewish conspiracy so according to him you cannot vote in change.

So what are we to do?

He also thinks that any organisation can be controlled by the same conspiracy so it would seem difficult to put together a revolution.

So just what are we to do?

What things can be done to counter all these powerful conspiracies?


**

 

get the knowledge out, get enough people fed up, march on the white house or some ish, rub the proof in their faces, acknowledge to them they have no power over us politiclly or any other way, organize some confrenece or some junk, reorganize government.
or some crap

 

Balbus,

"what are we to do?" is a ridiculous question to ask in the first place. if we had an answer to this then maybe there wouldn't be any problems.

i mean, come on, can YOU answer this question? i don't think anyone in the world knows how to solve all the world's political/economic problems in a one-line answer.

 

Purple

I’m not asking for a one-liner, but over the years I’ve been here I’ve written a lot about the subject of what to do, it comes up in what is called debate.

Remember I don’t believe in this all powerful conspiracy of Jewish Bankers or whatnot, I believe in that often slow and certainly difficult road of politics, political activism and the democratic process, I also see a place for popular revolution peaceful hopefully but if needs must then otherwise. But that takes work and organization, I’m a political activist and have done my time at meetings held debates and done time leafleting and behind stalls.

What I’m getting at is that Rat and the other conspirators are pumping out a lot of scare stories but don’t seem to want to talk about what they would do to change things.

The few times that Rat has talked about political policy rather than conspiracy theory it is clear that the policies he’d support would not help and are very likely to make things a lot worse (in the real world).

It is also clear that his political viewpoint would in fact make the rich and wealthy the very ones he writes so much against (that head his conspiracies), even richer and more powerful.

So why is Rat trying to alert people to what he sees as a danger when his solution seems to be to make that danger worse?

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