Lust, marriage and wedding rings?

A question to fellow Christians:

How do you go about choosing who is 'acceptable' to lust over?

Since I became a Christian, I stopped lusting over any woman I knew to be married, since it seems quite plainly written in The Gospel that lusting over a married woman is a sin.

This past year, I started thinking "is it still a sin even when I don't know she's married?" and I came to the conclusion that it is still a sin, because I'm still doing it. Like, accidental theft is still theft and you should return what you accidentally stole.

I therefore stopped lusting over any stranger (over the age of 16) since there's a fairly high chance of her being married, therefore if I kept lusting over strangers I'd be bound to sin quite regularly.

This has dramatically cut down the number of people I can think about when I masturbate! I'm thinking of turning gay so that way I'd have a few more people to think about. (Joke.)

Anyway, I recently started wondering about a new strategy based on wedding rings. If I see a woman not wearing a wedding ring, would it be fair to assume that she's not married, since almost everyone in this country wears a ring when they're married? And therefore she's game for lusting over?

But what about women from other countries? I don't know how common wedding rings are in other cultures. For example, I really find Japanese women incredibly attractive but I have no idea how common wedding rings are in Japan!

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue? What are your personal rules on lust? Or do you not have any? Or do you not masturbate?

I'm sure all the answers are there in The Bible, but I don't know where to look!

 

Sexual desire is only bad when it causes you to harm yourself or others.

Thinking about doing your friends wife will cause you to act guilty (or falsely) while in their presence, so you are better off not thinking about it to preserve your friendship. Of course, if everyone knows the desire is there, and they know you value your friendship over a little sexual satisfaction, they will love you even more (and you will feel good about yourself as well). Put friendship before cum, and maybe you will get to cover your friends with cum in a loving manner when the time is right.

 

Kharakov,
That post started out sounding quite sensible and then got really really gross by the end!

 

Yeah, sometimes I do it the other direction too.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "lust" one of the seven deadly sins? Therefore, you'd be sinning regardless if they were married or not.

Which is why I'm a sinner.

 

You can look at sexual desire the wrong way and label it lust, instead of seeing it as a gift from God. I mean, there has to be some humor in God drawing you forward by a hot chicks body and saying "you are sooooo bad" for wanting that hot chick.

God. God is so stupid sometimes!!! I'd bite God if I could.

 

Well, lust itself can't be a sin. None of us would be here without lust! A species that doesn't have sex will die out, so lust is the most important instinct we have (which explains why we base our whole lives around it!).

As far as I understand it, "lust" as one of the seven deadly sins is the same as greed: you can eat, and have sex — eating and fucking are perfectly natural and you'd die if you didn't — but overindulgence in food and sex can lead you astray and cause you to sin. An uncontrollable greed/lust for pleasure probably isn't going to give you a very wholesome lifestyle, and you'll probably end up overweight (ie deadly) or catching AIDS (ie deadly), hence greed and lust are deadly sins.

 

The Bible says to 'flee' from lust.

The only one whom you're allowed to lust after is your wife...you can lust after her as much as you want.

Why? because when one lusts his dumb flesh wants *more*.

 

When you read scripture, you MUST understand ALL of what I'll call the elements that influenced the writer to write what s/he did. You cannot read scripture by simply reading chapter and verse and come to a certain conclusion! You have to understand the situation at the time. You have to understand what the language meant at the time. Words change meaning over time. Let's not forget that after the persecutions of christians stopped and "the church" was made legitimate, there were forces that did their best to manipulate the faith for their own political gain and NOT for spiritual integrity.

With that said, one of the ways that the romans of the early fourth century A.D. manipulated scripture is by adding and altering words and modifying their meaning. This was especially true in teachings about sex. Celibacy was not a value of biblical times-believe it or not! What has come to mean as lust was not simply desiring a woman for a sexual fling and/or admiring her beauty or whatever, but the desire to steal that woman away from her husband and wish that her husband didn't have her.

In addition, let's not forget that Romans were notoriously monogamistic. One of the early emporers (Nero[?]), when he desired to marry another woman, he had his first wife killed!

Again, you must understand what the meaning was behind the term in question! If you don't understand what the author was attempting to convey, you'll never learn to appreciate that message's true meaning! I have come to the conclusion that many people that call themselves christian today-specifically those of a fundamentalist or literalist perspective-are nothing more than mouthpieces for a movement that, if you were to ask me, is doing nothing more than being a manipulative force in society today. Sure, I realize that there is alot dysfunction in the world today, but I don't see fundamentalists being the antidote to that condition!

You're getting yourself worked up over nothing! When they talk about masturbation being a sin in the bible they were talking not so much about the act itself but the intention of the individual in question! He was simply trying not to 'blow his wad' for his own pleasure, but was doing this as an act of defiance! I strongly advise that you check out the following websites to understand what the bible really has to say about sexuality!
www.libchrist.com
www.geocities.com/openlcc/olcc.html

 

Well, as far as I am aware there is a vast difference between fancying someone and lusting over them and lust is a sin and masturbation is also a sin.
You can find someone attractive, which then may lead to marriage which should then lead to sex etc. and then you may lust over your wife. But lusting over women in general so that it turns you on which results in masturbation is a sin.

That's how I understood it anyway.

 

thespeez:
A very interesting and well-written post! Thank you! Regarding the Roman's (or anyone else's) alleged manipulation of the text, however - which I have on occasion suspected - can you refer me to any articles on the topic? I'm just curious, as it would be nice to confirm my suspicions.

I was actually going to provide the link to the Liberated Christians webste myself, when I realised you had already done so. To narrow down your search even further however (there seems to be a myriad of articles on that site), I suggest reading - from that site - this article on lust and adultery.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

To encourage repression of desire for consensual physical love (or non-physical for that matter) between mature men and women is damaging and absurd - and arises from a highly-lamentable mis-interpretation of the gospel, in my opinion.

P.S. I've just had a cursory glance at the other website you linked to thespeez - looks wonderful [ : bookmarked : ]

[ : I hope the 'Pharisees' don't ruin this thread : ]

 

The Bible says that the sight of the eye is better than the wandering of the lust.

But lust only ever meant 'want'.

The Bible says the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.

However, if the man did not lust after the passing woman, he might be letting his future wife get past him.

Christ said that to look on a woman with lust was to have committed the deed with her in his heart - all the sin with none of the benefit.

From my own experience with the normal male mind set, I devoted myself to my second wife in turning my desires away from all other women. I suceeded, but I became impotent and my wife accused me of not loving her.

God made man, and God made woman. God knows the heart. King David, for example slipped up: had an affair with a woman he desired. Then he went a step further and had her husband murdered in battle. But David's heart yearned for communication with God - whenever he slipped, he returned to God because his heart went that way and God knew it. God killed the child that woman bore, but He forgave David; called David a man after His own heart.

 

Well, you missed the point entirely! You do NOT understand the meaning of scripture that was trying to be illustrated at the time it was being written. You must understand the culture, language and all other elements that existed at the time that scripture was being written. When you take chapter and verse literally with OUT understanding what was going on at the time, the integrity of your message becomes greatly compromised!

BTW, As I understand it, I feel that in committing the act mentioned above, one is committing first the sin of adultery and one could perhaps argue the sin of bearing false witness. Let's not forget that the sin of adultery was not necessarily referring to sexual transgressions but instead in actuality referred to an act of betrayal!

As far as masturbation, you must undertand that in Leviticus 15:16-18, the issue at hand was not masturbation itself but that the situation at the time called for restraint for this activity because of the sanitary conditions that existed at the time and place. Keep in mind that these folks were in the desert under primitive conditions where sanitation was of utmost importance-one wrong move could spell disease or death for many under such horrid conditions. In addition, with regard to the "sin of Onan" in Genesis 38:8-10, the sin was not of the act of masturbation itself, but the act of selfishness. Rather than father a child by his deceased brother's wife he instead chose to withdraw early and ejaculate on the floor. This was the offense in question! Check out:
http://christianmasturbation.homestead.com/index.html

 

THIS IS NOT TRUE! The word lust in the bible as a sin was used to mean selfish desires to take something from another!

Again, you've taken scripture completely out of context!
Check out: http://www.libchrist.com/bible/lust.html

 

Lighten up, thespeez - you're gonna pull a muscle or something.

As often and as deeply as I have studied scripture over the years (and I am still studying), I know pretty much what I communicate.

Lust means 'want'. God sent Israel into the promised land, instrusting them to take whatever their heart lusted after. That is not a misinterpretation on my part.

Besides which, at my level, I am allowed a loose translation, or a paraphrase when in the act of 'casual' conversation.

 

The word fornication comes from the latin word 'fornix' which was either an L-shaped wall or an arch and this area was where prostitutes would assemble. The word porneia-which meant the buying and selling of slaves for cultic prostitution-was mistranslated as fornication. I'll refer you to the folowing websites:
http://www.postfun.com/pfp/fornication.html
http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/fornicationadult.html
Here's an expose on Roman Emporers Augustine and Constantine and their perspective on sex as well as perspectives of the early Catholic church: http://www.libchrist.com/bible/howsexsin.html
Something else to remember is that in the fourth centuries of the common era, there was the council of Nicea, which was called to determine what the official church doctrine would be as there was so much debate going on at the time. At this council, it was decided upon-by a divided vote-that the trinity rather than the unitarian (Arian) view would become the official church doctrine and dissenters became heretics. Check out:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/godsreligion/p/aa082499.htm
http://www.americanunitarian.org/mianoarius.htm
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=48
Keep in mind the latter site has a fundamentalist bent. Take it with a grain of salt.

In any case, I hope this all helps!

I think since time and memorial, there have been efforts to twist and manipulate scripture for one's own political or financial gain and not to promote spiritual integrity. Again, as far as I'm concerned, such people have used His name in vain and have arguably both committed adultery and borne false witness!

Yeah, I appreciate what you mean about the neo-pharisees- uh I mean fundamentalists.

 

How about we see what the Bible has to say on Lust:

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Jesus said it)

Proverbs 6:25
Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes

Job 31:1
"I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

1 Thessalonians 4:5
not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;

1 Peter 4:3
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

1 John 2:16
For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.

Well, there it is. Lust of any kind is wrong and it is not from God.

Point-Set-Match

 

[ : maybe we shouldn't bother taking the bait thespeez - I'm too tired to go chasing worms now anyway : ]

 

Oh I understand. I understand that people like you want to prove that lust and masturbation are not a sin, because you don't want them to be. I can also see that someone who doesn't want murder to be a sin could possibly come up with some crap that excuses them of that too.

 

Well, actually it is from God. It's called a joke... you ever hear of playing pranks on people before?

Look at attractive girls and think they are doable and you have wronged me!!!

<parades hot chicks in front of person>

You are bad for looking and thinking the thoughts I put in your head!! Bad creature, BAD!!