Satanism?

So man, please clarify for me, what religion do you believe in/practice?

 

I am not affiliated with any groups. I just believe in God. The closest religious description of God (to my own understanding) is at this website (about Jews): http://www.jewfaq.org/g-d.htm. Although I disagree with :"Any attempt to ascribe attributes to G-d is merely man's imperfect attempt to understand the infinite." for I feel that man understands God as God intends man to understand God.

If God chooses to display temporal attributes to man, they exist while the man percieves them to be true, for God has caused man to feel these attributes represent God. Of course, the perceptions of these attributes may not be the whole picture of what God is, but they are some of the true attributes of God. It's like percieving the sky as blue, when it is also windy, black, cloudy, rainy, snowy, foggy, blowy (a subset of windy...), etc. Like a series of storms accentuates a sunny day, sometimes God pretending to be scary accentuates a loving relationship (like your grandpa growling at you when you were a kid- if you didn't know him that well, you got scared, once you got to know him, it made you giggle).

I consider the whole Satan thing to be silly. Ohh, and I think God gets a kick out of putting us in decaying flesh because God likes to tease us. Perhaps our bodies are God's way of saying "Boo". Fuckin' God....

 

"Actually, that is a logical fallacy called Ignoratio Elenchi (or Irrelevant Conclusion). "I'm free" and "I don't have God" are your premises. Your conclusion is that "this proves that God does nothing." Even if you were free and didn't have God (neither of which is true), it would not prove that God does nothing, for God could be doing many things that you do not know about (and in fact is, right now, at this moment, doing many things which you know nothing about). "

isnt it the same the other way around? You cant prove hes doing anything right now. I say to God, stop helping me now i hate you i dont want your help ever in my life, i will go on living the same life.. You cant say 'hes helping you all the time you just dont know it' because you cant prove it

God I defy you to stop 'helping' me or interfering in any way with my life!

 

I think peoples biggest mistake is to call Yahweh GOD, when is just a god, not God.

The Jewish god just got lots of good coverage, first by threats to his people, then later by his blood thirsty priests, and got an extreme makeover when Jesus came along.

To credit one "god" with the things that Yahweh gets credited with is wrong.

I believe in every god, worship only a handful, and Yahweh and Set dont make the list, cause im not Semitic, why worship their gods, my people have their own.

 

Some random thoughts that came to my mind from the pure thread topic title and no reading of responses:


Satanism is often touted as having followers who don't actually believe in Satan himself, but believe in nothing. I guess a sort of nihilism but with a socially shocking "brand-name".
The only people I've met, heard of, or read about who are self-proclaimed Satanists are 80-90% teenage/early adult mal-adjusted attention seekers who think wearing black is rebellious and their 'belief' seems to me to be for pure shock value. For someone that doesn't care what people think of them, they sure care a lot! I don't disparage their discontent with current western society, just their manifestation of it.
When questioned about Satansim i've seen them puff up with a feeling of intellectual superiority as they explain they don't actually believe in Satan and that whole standard response right from the 'ooh i'm scary' handbook.
It's a cheap way to boost the ego, and make oneself feel unique, in many cases. haha
The other ones I know of seem to be genuine social recluses, misfits, and egotists. They usually have a pretty dark personality as it is, not empathetic, bordering on sociopathic I would even say. Possibly someone who has these personality traits is attracted to these forms of religious/religio-philosophic beliefs but who knows?!

There are interesting aspects though, like the author Ayn Rand who thinks altruism is a harmful motivation of human action, and Satanism would actually fit in with this credo, being as it is in the modern form anyway a way of thinking and acting based on ego and self-satisfaction.

There are weird people involved in all sorts of religious institutions over time, but it seems to me that the ones like Satanism and those similiar ones like "Magic/k/ck" etc.. basically any involving spells, rituals involving symbolic things like swords, altars, or *gasp* blood etc.. the type of people that THESE systems attract, are sometimes genuinely odd in a menacing way.
At least if there's some weirdo guru type guy from a 'lighter' type path more akin to buddhism, meditation type stuff, then you can shake your head and walk away. You don't have to fear that a narcissistic hood and robe wearing malcontent is going to stalk you or something!
Overall good luck to people who find fulfillment in any of these things, without harming others, it's just not my cup of tea and I can't take anyone seriously who is into it either.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth. I should probably go up and read some other's prior responses now..haha

 

That's only because God does things through us (or, if you look at us as tools, with us). God is effectively hidden among us by acting through us. If you look at any action non holistically, you see the part (such as me) doing the action instead of the whole (such as God). When you say "Kharakov wrote this message" you are correct, except that you ignore the fact that God caused me to write this message (of my own free will- I couldn't stop an orgasm either).

Premise 1) I don't have to be able to prove something in order to say it
Premise 2) You say I can't say "blah blah blah" because I can't prove it

Conclusion A: You are wrong. (this is also premise 3)
Premise 4) I am an asshole if I nitpick on details just to point out that you are incorrect
Conclusion B: Kharakov is an asshole.

Back to the main argument. I was just pointing out that from the premises that Lodui used, "God does nothing" is an irrelevant conclusion.

 

Nice post. lol....

 

My premise was god does nothing for those who don't need him.

I don't need to personify the universe. Therefore god is irrelevant to me.

 

Ohh. That's not what you said though:

Premises: I'm free now and I don't have god.
Conclusion: Once again proving God does nothing.

(In an argument you "prove" your conclusion that you arrive at through your premises. Of course, I already pointed out that you arrived at an irrelevant conclusion. Look up "irrelevant conclusion/ chewbacca defense" on google.

Yup. God will do that for you.

Perhaps the concept of relevance is the issue you have.

Relevance: having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand

God set up your whole life (all of our lives), so does have a significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand (life), whether or not you know it.

 

Thats pretty much it.

I'm very well adjusted.

My belief is the concept of 'god' has harmed our society for ten thousand years, and we can be liberated from. 'Satanism' is obviously for shock value... I don't see how anyone could notrealise that.

Satanism is a critique of the effect of the concept of 'god' on human development.

You jump to a lot of conclusions.

How many professed satanists do you actually know? Do most of them hang out by the food court?

I have a feeling that nobody really believes in this whole god thing anyway, and its just some attempt to put meaning into their lives and a nice social club for a day of the week.

Faith is a cheap way to boost the ego and make yourself feel eternal and think that you're part of a system.

You are part of a system, its just one that doesn't care about your car problems. and you are a part of for as long as your alive. Thats life, and it's beautiful.

Satanists usually call ourselves secular humanists when we grow up and stop caring about shoking people to make them look at there values.

My use of 'satan' before ism is a refernce to the serpent which wanted man to taste the fruit of knowledge and therefore liberate us, even though it would mean his banishment to perdition.

Satan is our savior, and its a powerful story. A story of sacrifice for the benifit of we who have moved beyond god.

And thats what secular humanism and satanism are. They are the worship of man.

You're confusing satanism with people who think they have dark powers. I don't believe in powers, as I'm a strict athiest. I don't believe in god, magic, karma, whatever.

I'm 20, well traveled, don't wear much black clothing, I've never worn a robe, unless you count bathrobes, I don't listen to rock, and I don't feel sad, oppresed by religious people, or think that calling myself a satanist makes me cool.

My life right now is great, and I've never drinken goats blood that I know about, but I do eat at wendys sometimes, so I can't be sure.

I'm cool for many different reasons, none of which involve my belief or disbelief in metaphysical crap.

I feel the same way about people who believe in god. It's fear based and primitive. I also feel the same way for people who belive in dark powers and wear lots of black, and Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

If they can be happy with it, fine, but it holds them back and therefore I hate them as the systems of control they are. God limits us, and only we can break free from his conditioning.

 

It's my premise and It'll be whatever I say it is.

Did you take a lot of debate in school? Your definitions of arguments is very concise, but the way you reason my conclusion is irrelvant is because you claim I don't know god? You couldn't be any more vauge,

Because I don't even know if you could define god to me? You say he's knowable, but only if he reveals himself (or you want to know)? Does that mean hes unexplainable? Everything is vauge and wacky in the world of faith.

'god doing things thorough us' could be said about the tooth fairy also. It's just as pertinent. You could claim its god thats making me about to go get something to eat, or you could say it because I haven't eaten since 1.

You could say god makes you do things, and maybe something *possibly malignant* in your brain does tell you to do things. But You only think that applies to others because the voice in your head tells you it does.

The voice in your head is you.

Yes, If I believe in god, he would probably be a personification for the universe, which is cold, and confusing, and I would probably use that personification to make me feel better.

But I don't need it, I feel great now.

There are no plans for my life but my own big papa.

I don't blame you, I might want to have god if I needed to justify myself to the universe, or the universe to myself. But I don't, I just am. For a short time I'm lucky enough to be around, and I don't need to waste it trying to follow someone elses plan.

Especially if that person isn't real.

 

--Well the concept of God has of course harmed society for thousands of years through war etc.. but only because humans get involved in it as an organised religion, which I also have issues with.

---Conclusions? Well thinking logically does tend to make a person come up with conclusions yes!
How many satanists do I actually know? None at the moment thankfully.
A handful of fake ones that we both agree are just total b.s. and 2, perhaps 3 more serious ones more like yourself i've known. Also then, reading about people like LeVay etc.. informed some of my opinions too.
As for food courts I really don't know, as I don't hang around them either.

--I tend to agree, in my more cynical moments, that faith in many people is a crutch, a placating device. A good idea that might be at the heart of the matter is, belief is for those who don't KNOW. If you know something, it's not a belief, it's knowledge. Most people don't meet God, the universe, the eternal, or whatever manifestation is out there for them. For those that are lucky enough to, then that's not belief anymore, or faith. It's undeniable experiential knowledge unfettered by the opinion of others.

---But what makes you believe in this story? You don't believe in God, do you? Why believe in Satanl? And you seem to be getting this story from the christian bible, which surely you don't view as a historically accurate document.. And if you view it as a mere fable or parable, why do you still cling to the idea of Satan?

---Satan is most certainly not my saviour Lodui! Not as a personified form or as a symbol. As a symbol of man's maturity to judge his or her own actions without the blind prejudice of cultural impressions brought about by upbringing, then this is a saviour of sorts for those who choose it, but Satan..it's just shock value... as you've accepted it is earlier. Why do you YOU need the crutch of the label Satanism?

---Yes strictly, I was, but you could tell by the tone of my post it was to just display the childishness and "stereotypicalness" of many so called Satanists and other affiliated belief systems.

---Well you're in a minority, which is cool and good, but just with that one little niggling thing. That you are an athiest, a 'humanist', who still chooses to refer to himself in terms of Satanism, and you say Satan is your saviour and even insist Satan is everyone's saviour.... If you were completely free of all deitification, even symbolic, then you wouldn't be doing this surely.

---Well i'm exaggerating with the blood stuff, not that everything involving blood is DRINKING of it, but I know what you're saying. Rituals in some 'sects' such as freemasonry etc.. use objects and such as symbols. Altars, swords etc.. and each represents something important, just as to you, Satan represents this tasting of knowledge, or a bringer of light (Lucifer)

---Is your belief in the Satanic symbol metaphysical crap?

---The one thing I would say that is wrong, purely from a knowledge/human/non-metaphysical point of view, in this statement is Buddhism. Many variants of Buddhism, especially the main ones, do use belief in deities and supernatural type things in their structure overall.
BUT you know, not all buddhism does this, and the original Buddhism was not like this. More a Psychology of the human condition and mind, and how to train it so as not to suffer as much. There are some simple forms which are all, only about attaining peace and a clear mind. Sound judgement. Wisdom. All human qualities, which you yourself say that you 'worship', and without the 'religion' baggage attached.

---And there you show your hand so to speak.
"..therefore I hate them as the systems of control they are."?
That's the difference, even in your language you've gone and HATED another person's belief. You can disagree, think it's pointless..shake your head and move on, but hate is a different thing. Hate in a group as you know leads to violence and war, the very reason for your criticism of other religions.
Religious people often hate other religious people from a different faith, leading to war and suffering, therefore you become Satanist.
Who hates other religions. You've come close to sounding like those you hate.

Also you say God limits us. You have said in the same post that you don't believe in God. That he doesn't exist.
That's just me being pedantic and slightly confrontational but I guess I see Satanism as a negative path, even if it's purely because of the insistence on using that word. If you're a secular humanist, just call yourself one! If you're an atheist philosopher, lover of knowledge, then just say so. I'm not suggesting belief in a God via some type of religion is the true answer, just that Satanism is reactionary like a teenager playing heavy metal as opposed to his or her parent's classical music.

 

Hate of a concept isn't the same of hate of a group.

I hate the concept of gnosticism because of the problems its caused, I also hate racism because of the problems it causes. Both are a way of looking at others as inferior.

I don't hate people for their beliefs. 'Nor do I particualarly care if they keep them to themselves, but when they want to spread they're faith... often violently, I calls 'em like I sees em.

I don't hate anyone, and if there religion does something good for them, it's cool. But religions effects are usually negative.

I appoligise if I was vauge, whenever I use the term 'god' I mean the perception of god.

I don't believe in god.

The use of the word is just for the reaction... I've admited its just to challenge people into questioning their values. I use the term for that purpose and for its admiration for the revolution aginst god *concept of god* which I feel is nessecary for us to move forward.

I consider that in the intrest of people, and I believe people are the only thing worthy of worship. I am definatly a secular humanist, because I believe in pure benevolence and reverence of people.

Of course it is. It's to offend sensibilities, I don't deny that. But sometimes its good to shake up traditional perceptions. Or maybe I'm just a punk kid. Either way, it doesn't matter.

All we should be concerned with right now is helping out people. Thats why I love Satan.

 

Agreed.

So you agree that you're perceptions might be abit askew.

Right, that's abstract, and is ok. I don't really have any problems with that, but it's all manifested in the mind. People can believe whatever they want to get them through the day, but I still see it as hapering our evolution.

I don't.

I don't cling to the idea. Nor do I worship a figment called satan. I see him as symbolism for our lack of need for 'god' to do whats right. We can achieve everything ourselves, and why not have a symbol for something like that.

Symbols are nice as long as the message doesn't get delluded. I don't call myself a secular humanist because I see it as being apologetic for being an atheist, which I am not.

I don't need the label, I throw it around for the fun of shock and and because he was a potent symbol for my belief in the inherent potential in people without needing to name a 'god'.

No more childish then mosts belief in god.

Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with symbolism or religion as long as the message doesn't get dilluted. And like I said, I use the symbol largely for shock value. I never claimed it was mature, but revolution is essential, and there once again is symbolism for 'satan'.

You can find good messages in all religions, and if thats what you focus on, then thats great. Seems pretty Satan to me.

Maybe not so much that I believe he's exists, but yeah, kinda.

I do think Gautama was pretty satan. But not a Buddha. Buddha implies infalibility, and he was just another person.

Satan, God, Buddha, and Jesus, aren't worthy of worship.

Norman Borlaug is.

 

Ah well, I see where you're coming from now I guess, I am similiar in some viewpoints in that to be good and do good things you don't need God as a reason, but yeah, some points we can agree to disagree.

But I don't agree that my perceptions might be a bit askew at all in regards to any satanists/satanist enthusiasts I may have met. I just mean I never became friends with any of them, probably because my perceptions were NOT skewed and I wanted no part in their lives.

 

Ooohh..

Nahh. I dropped out of school.

No. It's because the premises of your argument did not lead to the conclusion.

Ohh. I don't know. Maybe I can, maybe I can't.

God will define God for you eventually. For now, it's sufficient for you to define God as your creator.

Well, if you want to know, and God wants you to know...

No. It would be hard to explain calculus to someone without a background in algebra. It just takes time to learn (some learn quicker than others- you might be one who does).

It seems that way at first, especially when you don't understand that God has a sense of humor (if you see God as remote and aloof).

It might seem that way to you, but it isn't. You are talking about 2 totally different entities. I have never seen evidence for a tooth fairy, however, I have seen evidence for God.
I wonder if the tooth fairy is hot? If she is, maybe you can knock some of my teeth out, I'll put 'em under my pillow, you can jump her from my closet...

Like I said, if you look at things without knowing that God planned them out you only see the motivations that God uses to draw you into doing what God planned for you to do. There is a reason they call God "the good shepherd".

It isn't always. God can speak to you as well (interupting your stream of thought). One of the things you have to learn to do is differentiate between God speaking within you and your own stream of thoughts (which God created as well).

The universe seems that way at first, but it isn't, it's a marvelous place with many wonders built into it.

Well, eventually, when you do know God, you will realise you have been an essential part of the master plan since your conception.

We talkin' about some person now?

 

it sounds like you just have voices in your head..

 

That's just because I am crazy. Everyone I know says so. For some reason.

What? Kill Colours? Really? Where does he live?

 

again with the murdering, God?

 

lol...