New Robert Johnson theory.

Discussion in 'Music' started by bobbyellis, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. bobbyellis

    bobbyellis Member

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    A theory by a japanese musician states that Robert Johnson's records may be playing way too fast! Should he sound more like his great mentor, Son House?
    Check this out - very interesting theory. w/ sound clips.
    www.touched.co.uk/press/rjnote.html
     
  2. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I must get to the bottom of this shit at once. This could possibly change the history of music.

    I'm still gonna keep on listenin to RJ. :D Nothin like Love In Vain.
     
  3. bobbyellis

    bobbyellis Member

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    Wow, is that a national resonator? tricone? man, thats one great lookin' guitar!
    Yeah, it's an interesting theory? I always did think his voice on the recordings was a bit high?
     
  4. syd

    syd Banned

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    thats amazing. Like really amazing. Just very amazing, im amazed
     
  5. samson

    samson Hepcat

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    Ive heard guys talk about this before, the only drawback I see is that since we are familiar with the machine used to record the tracks, there is lots less chance that this is the case. RJ has been the topic of music discussions since the day he made these recordings, and it isnt likely to stop soon.
    So, until I hear it from Steve Cushing, I have my doubts about this theory. I'll put it in the Dark Side/Wizard of Oz type thing!
     
  6. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Yeah, RJ is one of the most mysterious people in music. I don't think there's really ever going to be an end to some of the stories and legends about him and his music. There's three gravesites for him in Mississippi, but I'm never sure which one he's at. I've always wanted to go down there. The place he drank the strychnine at is still standing. I was reading a story about it but these guys didn't know which building it was, though they were sure they saw it.
     
  7. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    It's a 1936 National Duolian. :D

    What I am wondering is if guys who knew and jammed with Robert would know anything about it. I mainly wish I could talk to Honeyboy Edwards again. I met him at a blues festival here and got to shake his hand and I took a picture of his hand while he was playing, as well. He played with Robert just before he died and he's 90 years old now.
     
  8. shockseventyfour

    shockseventyfour Member

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    thats awesome ^^^ what did he have to say about robert johnson?
    i was just playing kindhearted woman blues
     
  9. moe-ron10091

    moe-ron10091 Member

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    records that old have the tendency to be 1/4 of a step higher than recorded
     
  10. bobbyellis

    bobbyellis Member

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    The article makes good sense. It has to do with the pitch and the capo setting. They don't match. However, it also goes on to state that the pitch may've been increased before pressing to give the music a quicker pace, as slow country blues was becoming passe at that time. That theory also makes sense. It would've been hard to make a dollar in the music industry on black recording artist at the time. They weren't being recorded and in was also the post depression era, where people tended to hang on to their money rather than spend it on 'luxuries'.
    However a picture has already been etched in our mind of what Robert Johnson IS and WAS, and new theory's make it that much harder to create change. Perhaps we'll never find out, and maybe,...it's for the better.
     
  11. Sax_Machine

    Sax_Machine saxbend

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    Don't tell me. He's STILL alive??? Amazing!!!

    Like, omg, chavspk chavspk chavspk!!!!!!! yru2b4ne1uno?
     
  12. samson

    samson Hepcat

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    Debunking this myth...

    Watching John Hammonds documentary on Robert Johnson, he plays cuts of Roberts to people who knew him, but had never heard the recordings. They recognize the music right away as Robert himself, specifically, Bessie May his ex-girlfiend. She crys when she hears "bessie may, bessie may, i'll make you my wife somday". If the recordings were at the wrong speed, she wouldnt know his voice immediately.

    End of this theory, sorry to ruin some guys obviously well written but badly researched thesis.
     
  13. Jelena :-)

    Jelena :-) ~

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    RJ rules!
     
  14. bobbyellis

    bobbyellis Member

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    I was hoping that people would give it a read and give the clips a listen and arrive at their own conclusion. Sure RJ's girlfriend would recognize his voice. Even a blind baby can recognize its own mothers voice at a slightly higher pitch. You seem well set in your opinion, which is okay, and it makes for a good debate but, you should leave others to give it a read and make up their own minds. After all it is only a theory?
     
  15. SunshineTheAngryHipi

    SunshineTheAngryHipi Member

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    Has anyone here ever found any Robert Johnson on vinal? I'd love to get ahold of a RJ record....
     
  16. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I have an album that was redone in the 60s. I have a lot of fred mcdowell/john hurt/rj.
     
  17. dedhead95

    dedhead95 The Wizard of Rhythm

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    I'd love to get my hands on a Mississippi John Hurt album, I am very jealus :$ :p
     
  18. bobbyellis

    bobbyellis Member

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    It's hard getting that stuff on vinal. A friend of mine has alot of it. he had a Muddy Waters on white Vinal with Muddy on one side and Jimi on the other. Think he got in Chicago at one of the record shows. This was years ago,...it was the first time I had heard Jimi Hendrix do Red House, so when I put a band together we were called 'Red House'. haha I got an education thumbing through his collection.
     
  19. samson

    samson Hepcat

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    I read it, heard the sound clips, thought about it, and came back with the obvious answer. This guy hasnt suggested a slight slow-down, hes dropping it drastically to put the vocals in a baritone! Hes keeping the keys the same by slowing it down to an octave below or more.

    Sure, we all recognize jimi when he slows his voice down at the start of Axis, but to apply it to an entire catalog of RJ recordings doesnt make much sense. These songs were heard by those who knew Robert, from shortly after his death all the way into our own lifetimes. Somehow, now we are expected to think that noone mentioned it?

    Consider then, that ALL the artists recorded by this travelling engineer who did the Robert Johnson sessions, should be slowed as well? Or is this an anomoly that only occurred when Robert was being recorded?

    The more one thinks about it, the more this theory becomes swiss cheese.
     
  20. arnie_play's_guitar

    arnie_play's_guitar Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I've read what this guy is saying, and I believe it's not true. But the reasons I beleive this is because some of the guitar licks seem way too easy when slowed down that much, I really just don't think people would record something like that. Yeah it is still hard I'd imagine but it's not the King of the Delta blues! I do want to point out that cases of speeding up tape happened all the time back in the 60's and 70's. Derek and the Dominos song "Layla" is a prime example. It's a either a half step or a full step faster on the record then they played it. And I can't even count on both hands how many Beatles songs were "adjusted" so the theory is possilbe, but I also agree with the guy saying people that knew Johnson recongnized the original's. People are alway's out to knock a guy off his high horse when it just seems impossible to reach the out come. RJ will alway's be that long fingered squikie blues man that turned on a entire nations and a generation to the blues! And that's slowed down or regular speed, that's all I've gotta say about that!
     
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