Elkins site - environmental impact

ok, so there's a lot of this/that about whether or not the original site is actually habitat to endangered species. it is, as can be seen here in the FS study completed in 2001 Glady Watershed Assessment. it takes quite a while to load, so here are some pertinant excerpts from the appendix D - ENDANGERED, THREATENED, AND SENSITIVE SPECIESLIKELIHOOD OF OCCURRENCE Lower Glady Watershed:

• There are currently eleven threatened or endangered species that occur on the Monongahela National Forest, however, the gray wolf and eastern cougar are considered extirpated from WV. Six of the remaining nine threatened or endangered species, or their habitat, can be found within the Glady watershed. These include West Virginia Northern Flying Squirrel, Indiana and Virginia big-eared bats, Cheat Mountain salamander, small whorled pogonia and running buffalo clover.
  
  [*]Indiana Bat Myotis sodalis E/G2/S1 (Endangered/G2 = 6-20 occurrences globally; imperiled and very vulnerable to extinction throughout its range./ S1 = Critically imperiled in state. Five or fewer occurrences.)
  Habitat: Winter in caves or mines that satisfy their highly specific needs for cold temperatures during hibernation. During summer, roost in trees and forage primarily in riparian and upland forests.MNF Range: Tucker, Hardy, Randolph, Pocahontas, Nicholas and Greenbrier Counties.
  LOO: Numerous caves within watershed area and within 5 mile radius of boundary. Summer forage and roosting habitat present within the watershed.
  
  [*]Cheat Mountain Salamander Plethodon nettingi T/G2/S1 (Threatened/ G2 = 6-20 occurrences globally; imperiled and very vulnerable to extinction throughout its range./ S1 = Critically imperiled in state. Five or fewer occurrences.)
  Habitat: Moist spruce or mixed spruce/deciduous forests, including, but not limited to, shaded or moist coves, possibly with rhododendron and/or small emergent rocks within spruce or hemlock forest. Spruce stands containing Bazzania (a liverwort).MNF Range: Minimum elevation is 2600’ on the Cheat district, and 2940’ on the Potomac and Greenbrier districts. Range extends east of McGowan Mt. (Randolph Co.) to Dolly Sods (Tucker Co.), south to Spruce Knob (Pendleton & Pocahontas Co.), southwest to Thorny Flat (Pocahontas Co.), north to Barton Knob (Randolph Co.). Not known to occur on the Gauley, Marlinton, or White Sulphur districts.
  LOO: There are four known populations within the watershed boundary. There is a need for additional surveys and colony delineation at known sites.
  
  [*]Virginia Big-eared Bat Corynorhinus townsendii virginianus E/G5T2/S2 (Endangered/ G5 = Demonstrably secure globally/S2 = Imperiled in state. 6-20 occurrences.)
  Habitat: Caves during both summer and winter. These caves typically are located in karst regions dominated by oak-hickory or beech-maple-hemlock associations. Forage in patchy mosaic habitats.
  MNF Range: Cave Mountain Cave (Pendleton Co.) and Cave Hollow/Arbogast (Tucker Co.) have been designated as Critical Habitat by USFWS.
  LOO: Numerous caves within watershed area and within 6 mile radius of boundary. Summer forage habitat present within the watershed.
  
  [*]VA Northern Flying Squirrel Glaucomys sabrinus fuscus E/G5T2/S2 (Endangered/ G5 = Demonstrably secure globally./S2 = Imperiled in state. 6-20 occurrences.)
  Habitat: Northern hardwood forests with a conifer component. Lowest recorded elevation is 2860'
  MNF Range: Extends southwestward, following the Allegheny Mt., from Canaan Heights and the northwestern edge of the Dolly Sods Wilderness Area (Tucker Co.) in the north to Briery Knob (Pocahontas Co.) and Rabbit Run (Greenbrier Co.) in the south. Also encompassing areas in Randolph, Webster, and Pendleton Co.
  LOO: No captures within the watershed boundary, however suitable habitat may exist at the higher elevations within the watershed and adjacent.
  

so folks, it seems that the fs wasn't just blowing smoke up your ass - they've been studying this area for some time. i found no references to future mining within this protected watershed.

here's a map of the northern section of the watershed, and the red circle is where (as best i can figure) the origional gathering site was.

yes, maybe there are other large groups that use this area - but do we really want it known that rainbow's rationalization is 'well, everybody ELSE is trashing this site, why can't we?'

 

there is no elkins site so quit spewin propaganda for the feds...

 

the ecological impact of sitting at home and paying babalon its dew ....is far greater ....forrest service isnt concerned with vast coal powered industry of slaves in china pumping cheep plastic junk and blowing an ill wind this way

 

whatever, don't get yer panties in a wad cuz i made a mistake and put elkins (the nearest town) instead of glady - and it ain't propaganda for the feds, it's an environmental study that was done on the watershed. in 2001, so the info has been available to the general public for quite some time.

i knew you'd be vocal about this hhb - i still love you and i ain't no feddy

 

umm the 2 caves the feds refferred to aint even in the county ,,i could go on,, but thers no reason,,, duh huh there greatful,,, the sites moved 70 miles south..

ya really should keep track before waistin your energy to support the feds propaganda on a issue that wasnt even the true issue,, the true issue was the permit!!!

nothing more...

besides that its old news now..

.

 

well, i wasn't arguing the permit issue - i wasn't even trying to argue at all, i was just trying to find out some facts since there seemed to be some confusion of whether this was a sensitive area or not.

 

the whole world is a sensitive area ...they dont stop building massive prisons ...i wonder what critters are displaced by them ...

 

oh sensitive area?

what place,, i defy you to find a remote national forest in the united states that doesnt have endangered species of plants or animals..

So what ya think the family moves on land an gos squirrel huntin and spelunkin for bats??

man untill youve done a national from seed thru cleanup,,i really dont think ya should try an rationalise the feds propaganda and assume we like the rest of babylon..

do you even know anyone thats on the land now? or do ya just assume what they must be like from what youve read in the media?

 

myself , its the wholesale batslauter that lures me

 

ok i confess,, we had flying squirrels and trilliums for supper last night,,rite after we damned up the creek for water and harvested what mullosks we could find...

hey but we circled before we ate it...

 

The rainbow family doesn't 'trash' any areas. What on earth would you say that for?!

 

I don't think that is the suspected problem but this report was out before the gathering location was known. Not that I support the LEOs but my experince with the FS has always been very good. I must add that this is suppose to be my first gathering. They seem to care about the land for the most part on the patrol level of officers. Not to say that the organization is great or wnything. Not sure if they do but does scouting group look for reports like this why scouting. Just a question. With much love.

 

Thank You Hairy for your info and link. Just because the FS says something doesn't mean it isn't true! I hope everything comes together well in the new site. I plan to be there the middle of next week.

 

yeah, watersheds are usually a little more sensitive than most

yeah, let's not bother with those pesky little things like facts - published in 2001 with no foreknowledge of needing ammunition against rainbow. it's way more fun to stomp around and beat our chests about how everything's federal propaganda and conspiracies are running rampant.

hhb, no i'm not there obviously - i can't be this year - hell, i can't go anywhere much at all.

graven, i only said it that way to point out the ludicriousness of all the excuses i saw, that 'the site was already trashed anyways, there's lots of large groups there all the time.' you have to admit that not all rainbow tread lightly - and i'll bet ya a nickle the gatherin's gonna be way bigger than any other group out there doing primitive camping. i do not think rainbow are out to wreck anything - just the opposite, that's why i thought those excuses were so ridiculous.

 

ok, back to conservancy - here's a way cool site to check out, the West Virgina Highlands Conservancy http://www.wvhighlands.org/. and something of interest for those of you with cameras:

PHOTOGRAPHS URGENTLY NEEDED FOR 8th EDITION OF MNF HIKING GUIDE


Allen de Hart and Bruce Sundquist continue to work on the upcoming 8th Edition of the Monongahela National Forest Hiking Guide, published and marketed by the West Virginia Highlands Conservancy.

Meanwhile, the authors need many photos for the new edition. Their plans are to have a new cover and to have all new internal photos except those illustrating mountain ranges (such as on pages 8 and 9 in the current edition).

The photos can be in either black and white or color, either in print or negative.

We will need to enlarge or process most photographs to fit the space and to create continuity. The ideal would be to have a glossy black and white print 5x7inches. All unused photos will be returned, and after printing those used will be returned. Photos used will be paid for $l0 each and if a cover is chosen the amount is $75. Location and photographer’s name will be necessary, and credit will be given each photographer. (Please see page 35 in the current (7th) edition of the Guide.) At least 40 new photos are needed. Mail them to Allen de Hart, 3585 US40l South, Louisburg NC, 27549. His telephone number is 919- 496-4771, and email is: adh4771@aol.com.

Currently a few new trails are being hiked, measured, and described. At least two dozen old trails have enough changes that they will be re-hiked and re-mapped. More than 60 old trails and l5 new trails have been re-hiked or hiked. Because the Forest Service’s 2005 edition of its Land and Resource Management Plan will not be published until later this summer, the hiking guide authors have had some delays in knowing about changes in the MNF user policy, trails to be abandoned, and changes in recreational facilities.

​

take a hike, take a pic, get paid? sounds good to me!

 

i cant speak for the scouts since i've never had the chance to scout myself, but from my understanding from speaking to many of he they go to gresat lengths to determine the sensativity of an area from excological & archological standpoints. & then come to a descision wether we can gather there with minimal or no impact.
in some cases the fs seems to deliberately lie to discredit us like happened last year in modoc when we were told by the fs rep to the tribes that there were no sensative sites, we then tried contactung the tribal elders to get theyre opinions but got no responce..onece the gathering was underway they vrought in the elders & started conflict, telling us it was the richest area in the country in artifacts (true, yet hidden from us, however we did gather with no real impact on the sensativity of the site)
the fs then started chasing kitchens away from a suposed sensative stream (trickle of water maybe 3 inches wide 1/2 inch deep) yet they walked theyre horses right throuh it for long distances after the conflict with the elders i spoke 1 on 1 with the woman who was the leader of the modoc tribe & she told me before the gathering the fs came in & took out over 50,000 artifacts & when the tribe requested they be burried where found or returned to the tribe they were told that it would take a congressioal order to return them.. at the gathering very few artifacts were disturbed, most were reburried where found howevera small number were returned to the tribe since they went sure where they were unearthed..the tribe was very happy to have the returned.
we alwayds go to great lengths to protect sensative areas, (although some individuals may not be as careful, the group as a whole is extremely respectful) & as far as i know in all these yearfs we have never had complaints that we negatively affected am endangered species afer the fact..however almost all logging progects & deforestation & widespread sprawl has affected many..but i guess thats the difference between financial & spiritual progress they can destroy milluions of acres if it makes someone rich, & we catch hell if 1 person stirs up allittle silt stepping in a trickle of water.

 

(i hate when i post a reply and it gets eaten by the whacky interface here...this will be shorter now )

I just wanted to add my 2-cents to the fray... I don't think a document showing that the Glady Fork area has been the subject of scientific inquiry really proves anything, IMO. In fact, the fact that this report is 4 years old and yet the FS has yet to act on this information in ways such as pushing to have the area redesignated as a Wilderness Area -- effectively adding another layer of protection for endangered species and prohibited 'group use' camping -- only makes it's sudden appearance as an "issue" more suspect to being a smokescreen.

That being said I see no reason to flaming Gr8tfully for bringing it up and stating his opinion, and ESPECIALLY not for accusing him of spreading feddy propoganda. That is tantamount to stirring shit in a sewer. It accomplishes nothing.

The Forest Service has, in the past, played a vital role in preserving the natural heritage of this country from being developed by corporate and industrial interests. Unfortunately, that era is long past. The criticisms of Edward Abbey, himself a former Park Ranger, are probably more valid today than when he first wrote them.

However, I don't think anybody either in these forums or in AGR and especially not *on the Land* have ever assaulted the integrity of individuals involved with the FS, be they Rangers, scientists, volunteers or even administrators. A great deal of them have their hearts and minds in the right place. What I see being criticized is the function of the FS as a branch of the u.s. government, and thus a manifestation of governmentality. Like any bueacracy it is a TOP DOWN organization, and big-policy decisions are not made by the people 'on the ground'. This report was published and probably shelved until it was convenient for someone higher up to pull it out and draw attention to it. The question ought be, 'Why now?'

I have no use for the 'conspiracy theory' mindset. Who needs conspiracies when the blatant, unapologetic acts of our elected leaders and their (unelected) corporate and military overlords are MORE frightening than any conspiracy you could ever dream up. Our government has gone to ludicrous lengths to stop social-movements in virtually every corner of the world, either through military support and training or covert "counter-insurgency" efforts. So, you might ask, what the hell would they care about a bunch of hippies gathering together in the woods?

Lest anyone has forgotten, we live in an era where drooling senators from Kansas are fomenting diatribes that the National Parklands should be abolished and opened up to full commercial and industrial exploitation -- because the idea of 'public lands' is basically "Communism"! I'm not kidding, there are actually people making this argument. New logging operations, mining and road-building are happening at an unprecendented rate. Is it really lunacy or 'conspiracy theory' to ask the question "Why would they target the Rainbow Gatherings?". Seems to me a better question might be, 'Why wouldn't they?!"

All of these points are completely aside from all the larger issues of governmentality and the potential obselescence of The State that is posed by the performance and execution of a *successfull* Gathering. If you do not think such an event is an epistemological threat to the existence of the absolute authority, the kind aspired to by our current administration and the Cold War lineage it springs from, then we must live in different countries.

This 'relocation' to hostile Pocahontas Co. reeks of 'set-up' to me. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.