Are you sure?

Where does the blowing yourself up and a bunch of unbelievers around you and ending up in Heaven with 72 virgins come in?

This may sound flip but it isn't. There are people detonating themselves all over the world thinking that they'll wake up in Paradise having done a work which will guarantee them Paradise.

How does that work for women? Or do women not go into Paradise?

 

Great question, highly appreciated. About the suicide part, there is a hadith(saying) from the prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) in which he said that the one who kills him self will continue killing him self in hell fire.

You have to define what you mean by "disbeliever" since some are hostile soldiers and in war with the muslims while others are civilians. I assume you are speaking about those civilians who are with peace with the muslims-minding their own business- yet they are blown up. There is a famous hadith about this kind of killing: "Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years"

He also forbade his companions to intentionally kill women and children at times of war, what about then, when there is no war at all? Life is something sacred and the taking of innocent life is among the most horrible acts which one can do, as the Quran states(interpretation of the meaning):

... if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people[5.32]

I do not think its correct that the whole of the muslim nation should be blaimed for the action of some muslims, the prophet(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said: "I warn you of extremism in the Religion for indeed those that came before you were destroyed due to their extremism in the religion."

Well, the first martyr of this nation was acually a woman living during the time of the companions. Acually, this question -about women entering paradise- was discussed for centuries by christian scholars and they met several times discussing the issue -if women possesed a soul or not- but the muslims had no room for doubtfulness in this matter. There are several verses speaking about this, some of which are:

The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil... On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise[9.72]

And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another(3.195)
The prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said concerning women "Women are the twin halves of men." so she is not some devilish snair whos heart is a trap(Bible,Ecclesiastes 7:26-28) but rather among those who have been honored, dependless of their orgins:

Verily, we have honoured the Children of Adam...[17.70]

 

good post cabd

 

flim flam

cab look at the verse that you qoute

... if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people[5.32]

and read a good tafsir like the Tafsir Ibn Kathir I dont know if this link will work but look at the bottom part of the page

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13723

(it would be as if he killed all mankind. .) means, "Whoever kills one soul that Allah has forbidden killing, is just like he who kills all mankind.

'' Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "He who allows himself to shed the blood of a Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids shedding the blood of all people.''

In addition, Ibn Jurayj said that Al-A`raj said that Mujahid commented on the Ayah,
(it would be as if he killed all mankind,) "He who kills a believing soul intentionally, Allah makes the Fire of Hell his abode, He will become angry with him, and curse him, and has prepared a tremendous punishment for him, equal to if he had killed all people, his punishment will still be the same.''

if you look at the two quotes from the tafsir above they both say shed the blood of a muslim or who kills a believing soul ....so this doesnt mean everybody is protected by this verse

another interesting part of the verse is the get out clause except "unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land"

now we can all understand what murder is but what the hell does spreading mischief mean in the land mean .

a bit further on in this same sura when you see the punishment for people who cause mischief in the land and wage war against allah that they shall be crucified or have opposite hands and feet cut off .

you read that waging war against allah is just putting a good case that mohammed and islam is a lie .

Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil ,well is lets say worshipping trees evil... we can see that disbelief or contradicting mohammed is considered waging war against allah and that will get you cruicified for that so tree worship may well be classed as mischief .

(The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land.) `Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil. Ibn Jarir recorded that `Ikrimah and Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that the Ayat,

 

and the reason you dont kill women and children is theres no one to rape or sell

also although suicide bombing is a new technique there are lots of examples were mohammed says that you will get blessings if you die fighting jihad, I would like you or any muslim to show me using the koran where jihad is a spiritual struggle

 

Waging war against Islam is not limited only to fighting with weapons, rather it may be done verbally such as defaming Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or attacking the Qur’aan, and so on. Waging verbal war against Islam may be worse than waging war against it with weapons in some cases.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

Muhaarabah (waging war against Islam) is of two types: physical and verbal. Waging war verbally against Islam may be worse than waging war physically – as stated above – hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to kill those who waged war against Islam verbally, whilst letting off some of those who waged war against Islam physically. This ruling is to be applied more strictly after the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Mischief may be caused by physical action or by words, but the damage caused by words is many times greater than that caused by physical action; and the goodness achieved by words in reforming may be many times greater than that achieved by physical action. It is proven that waging war against Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) verbally is worse and the efforts on earth to undermine religion by verbal means is more effective.

if you have a religion that promotes the idea of getting special rewards if you die fighting, that puts a obligation on fighting jihad , the koran says you dont like fighting but often we dont like a thing thats good for us .....well who is to blame if people apply these sort of teachings..

and these teachings of killing people who fight islam with words are being applied today

The late theo van gogh who made a film critical of islam in holland got stabbed and shot and a note pinned to his chest while he was alive, the other people who made it with him will have to spend their lives on the run.... from the so called religion of peace that doesnt mean peace at all but submission

 

I would not react to him any more if I were you Adam, he's not going to listen anyway.

@johnny2mad: I'm from Holland and I saw this movie 'Submission' by Theo van Gogh. I can image why some muslims find it provoking. I don't know whether you saw it, but it shows naked women who have Quran texts on their bodies. This is no reason to kill a moviemaker of course, but I think he should have been more thoughful himself as well. The other people who made this film do have protection, as do have lots of other politicians etc. here. It's not been the same here since the day Pim Fortuyn, another politician got shot. The murder of Theo van Gogh has been our 9/11.

But this is no reason to think of Islam as a violent religion. It is a very small group that screws it up for the rest.

 

kiss the sky Im pretty sick of people like yourself, who have no evidence that islam is a non violent religion .....and can not disprove the evidence that it is .....and are so craven that you blame the victim for being killed by a bunch of nazis .

if theo van goghs death was your 9/11, wake up... he didnt do anything wrong, if muslims are offended by what dutch people say about their religion why come to europe .

Ive seen submission, but having some womens bare back isnt the only thing that will offend muslims and get them to try to kill you

openly leaving the religion will
proving that islams false will
people have been killed for saying that maybe mohammed wasnt circumsised
following another religion can


I dont like the things that are in islamic scripture ...atheists being burned to death, qoutes like kill all the pagans, so surely if you are so understanding about theo van gogh being killed if atheists and non muslims start killing muslims that will be ok to

read my posts

I have shown that islam is a violent religion disprove what I have to say or shut up

my last post quoted from the best tafsir thats a book that explains the quran and it shows that that verse that cab quoted

if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people[5.32]

applys to muslims it doesnt apply to people like me or pagans , later on in the same sura its says that people like me and theo van gogh who fight allah with words should be crucified

you or cab disprove what I have to say if you cant Im right

so put up or shut up

 

I'de love to disapprove your tailes johnny, but it has to wait until tomorrow. Its getting late and the prayer is closing up.

 

no hurry cab im off to glastonbury pop festival in a couple of days too
and I will be offline for a week .
hope you have a nice time in syria if your still there, look after yourself jon

 

thats not what Im doing Im not qouting al-queda or some little splinter group .
Im qouting from the most mainline of sources,
the tafseer ibn kathir is about the most respected tafseer there is.

cab seems to admire saudi arabia
this is a list of the rate of blood money you get if you have a relative killed
100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
50,000 riyals if a Christian man
25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman.

if human life is valued the same if the person is a muslim or non muslim like cab claims, why is a muslim man valued at about 30 times more than a hindu .

every branch of islam that ive come across has discrimination against non muslims.

in shia islam the highest religous authority as of today states that you need to have a ritual bath if for example you sit on a seat a non muslim sits on ...
kafirs are considered on the same level as shit thats on his website today in english shias make up 30% of the worlds muslims .

in sunni islam which makes up most of the other 70% you have 4 main schools Hanafi Maliki Shafi'i Hanbali.
hanafi are about the most liberal, when I say that they still believe in things like: condoning of slavery and sex slavery, cutting off of hands for stealing, crucifixtion, stoning for adultery, flogging for illegal sexual intercourse, offensive jihad, the third-class status of non-Muslims under Muslim law (dhimmis), the poor status of women, and so on.
but they allow non people of the book (christians and jews) to live in a islamic state thats why I say they are liberal.

right im off to glastonbury will speak in a week

 

islam doesnt jail the rapist and killer it may in peace time but you have the rules of right hand possessions and offensive jihad .

anyway
and if you slighted the king of sweden I doubt anything great would happen to you, I could insult the queen of england and nothing would happen to me .

your right burning isnt a general punishment in islam well not in this life anyway ....but cruifixtion, stoning (only in hadith for stoning) ,blinding , chopping off hands flogging are .

and in that haddith that mentions burning atheists it doesnt say dont kill atheists, it says we burned them then someone else says dont use that method kill them in another way .

Thats still not very nice, the koran has things like kill the pagans isnt that insulting to pagans .

if I say mohammed was a very immoral man and I back up why I think that ,is that worse than saying kill all the muslims.

sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me .

which would you rather if I said "you have smelly feet lets say " or if I say "lets kill cab" especially when we know that this call to kill cabs or atheists and pagans as been carried out.

I had a great time in glastonbury by the way and set fire to my beard (which is very long) by accident while moving a candle was quite funny , hope your time in syria was good

 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said:

Muhaarabah (waging war against Islam) is of two types: physical and verbal. Waging war verbally against Islam may be worse than waging war physically – as stated above – hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to kill those who waged war against Islam verbally, whilst letting off some of those who waged war against Islam physically

wouldnt someone like ibn warriq be classed as someone waging war with words against islam ,he as you know lives under a false name as do most other major intellectuals against islam .

I cant think of another major religion in which this is the case, the same would apply to open apostates most of them are scared of being bumped off even in the west .

 

Those people ain't Christians. They're liers.

 

read it, you have a point

 

I am. I know I'm a good person.

 

How can you be sure when the greatest of the companions of the prophet were unsure? People who dedicated their life to charity, praying and striving together with the prophet of God(peace and blessing of Allah be upon him)

"It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper"(chapter Nisaa(Women))

"None feels secure from the Plan of Allaah except the people who are the losers"