any unschoolers here?

Well, I agree with most of the above but I think one of the things school gives you is socialization skills. I mean from dealing with teachers you hate (good training for that future boss your might have), to dealing with the bullys, to getting that special someone's attention, to just making and keeping friends. My boys have excellent social skills - they make friends easily. And I don't think they are mean to their peers. I believe most of that has come from daycare and school experiences.


Anyway, I have changed my sig in honor of this thread. See below.

 

Okay, so I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain myself just out of sheer laziness, but alas.


It's not that I think people shouldn't be poets, musicians, writers, etc. It's that I think they should be firmly grounded in traditional subjects and THEN do those things (or simultaneously... whatever). There is nothing wrong with being a musician, and many musicians are happy playing street corners... but I want to give my child the opportunity to become a aeronautical engineer OR a pianist, and like SilverClover said, there are some things that you just can't learn on your own.

As for success, there really is no such thing in my opinion because success would be achieving your potential... but the closer you get to your potential and the more you learn, the more you find there is to know, thus the impossibility of reaching your potential.

And sure I think that traditional public schooling is a complete waste of time, but that doesn't mean the concepts they attempt to cover are useless. I suppose it depends on your field. Just because you are a musician, for example, doesn't mean that your child is going to want to be a musician/artist/writer (or something related)... because of this, the child should be exposed to everything (even the "useless" stuff). But of course, everyone raises their own kids, so to each his own.

You seem to have taken my post extremely personal, so I guess if you want to continue a debate or what-have-you, we can do it through PMs... since I've already taken this thread off topic.

 

self-directed != self-taught

I'll offer a quote which I have used before. It's by Karl M. Bunday - the author of the very worthy site Learn in Freedom:

 

why do you want everyone to be the same?

and there's even more things that you can't learn from a public school. like, for instance, the ability for one to think for his or herself.

 

That's ridiculous... I never said I wanted everyone to be the same. I said everyone should have all opportunities.
Go back through my posts and tell me when I've suggested that I support public schooling.

And will someone please tell me exactly what "thinking for one's self" is.

 

ahem.. just kind of jumping in here.

ok, so I too beleive that kids should have every opportunity to go wherever they want to in life. It's thier choice.

I think that if you are smart and capable enough (and I'm sure many moms and dads are) to teach your child the curriculum, make sure they are up to date, and teach them the life skills that they may not learn in school, then I think homeschooling is fine. A child who is homeschooled can still go on to college and be whatever they please.

If you can't give your child each and every opportunity though, public school is the best option.

 

My children have been completely unschooled, and it hasn't hurt them a bit. The fact that my 11yo is a hell of a musician, hasn't stopped him from learning "left brain" subjects. He didn't read until he was well over 8, now at 11 he has read more books on his own than most adults I know. Unschooling isn't about just letting your kids run free, though that is part of it. Its about being in tune with them and providing an atmosphere that facilitates learning on a daily basis. Just because I unschool, doesn't mean I neglect the basics, he's been doing multiplication and division from the age of 5, its about responding to your childs individual needs. My 5yo can spell any word you ask her to "sound out" but insists she can't read, she will realize one day she can whether its at 6 or 9 doesn't really matter to me. My son was factoring out numbers for fun at 7, my daughter now 7 is just getting those horrible minus's down, but she's already read the first Harry Potter book on her own. Its not about a time table, but real quality of education.

Socalization in the public school is incredibly FAKE. As an adult I enjoy friends of all ages, it very rare I sit around and realize that everyone around me is within 1 year of my age, even more strange when all our conversation and activity is directed by some other older adult who plans out my whole day for me. As an adult I have to be responsible for directing my own time and events, I didn't learn how to do that in school. Children bring guns to school regularly, sucicide of teens in this country has reached unacceptable levels, underqualified teachers who fail to capture the childrens minds and keep their attention has caused an epidemic of "hyperactive" children who they expect to be medicated. They spend more time teaching the dreaded test than teaching children valuable life skills needed to survive in this world. Lack of discipline is rampant, and morals not allowed any more. IN fact the whole "self esteem" movement has caused too many children passed on without gathering the needed skills. Its no surprise to me that homeschoolers consistantly score an average of 15 percintiles above public schooled children or that prestigous colleges like Harvard and MIT hold Homeschool fairs too recruit. My children certainly do not lack for playmates, they just have playmates of all ages, and my children can sit and have a conversation with an adult, just as they can amuse a toddler and have a great time with kisd near their own age. I won't apoligize for the fact that my 3 or 4 yo was playing in the yard and not sitting at the table.

However, it is a real commitment and unfortunatly I have seen children whose parents used the term unschooling for completely ingoring their children, but that seems to be the execption not the norm. But you can't judge us all by what you have seen one person do, I challenge anyone to spend a few days with my children and tell me self directed learning, unschooling, whatever you want to call it doesnt work.

 

Amen to that, BusMama!

 

well, it simply isn't fact that mathamatical concepts are easier to learn at a young age, however, there is no reason a child shouldn't learn the concepts if the child shows interest. What I'm speaking againest is subjecting young children to some man's concept of what they "should" learn just because they are a certian age. For example, children all learn to walk and talk at different ages. Not every child is ready to learn to ride a bike at age 3 (like my daughter did) some won't learn until 10 (like her older sister did). It is the same with reading and writing and arithmetic. Each person will be ready for these skills at different ages, and to put them in a box that says something is wrong with you because this is hard for you now, or that you are better than your peers because this happens to be easier for you, is counter-productive. Skills are more easily, and better learned, when the learner is interested....and that is a fact!!

well success is perhaps in the eye of the beholder. My husband is a successful musician, as are my 2 adult sons. They count success in that they are making a living doing something they love. They don't have fame or wealth, but they have love and self-respect, and in my book that is successful. If you have the drive to make a living in math or science, or simply to make a lot of money in buisness, and have no use for music and art, that is your idea of success and is just wonderful for you. You determine your own success, no one else! Just live and let live....there is room for all kinds of people (and all kinds of children) in this great big world!
peace to ya!

 

busmama....Thanks for your post! always good to hear from someone living the life!

 

I fear you have a misunderstanding of what unschooling is. It is self-directed learning. That means that if I have an interest in learning a language, I find someone who knows the language to help me learn it. Perhaps tacking a class will prove to be the way to go. Many home educated children take a variety of classes to learn everything from music, art and languages to science, math and english. Not to mention sports, dance, and life skills. It is not about keeping children from learning traditional subjects!!!!!!! It is about learning in whatever way your child learns best! All my children have taken classes in various areas of interest.

I'm not bashing schools....my husband teaches music in the public schools and makes a difference in children's lives! I'm just saying there is more than one way to get an education, and for my family, self-directed learning at home, in the community, and the wider world, has been an excellent and rewarding way. We have seen the lasting results of this type of education and way of life and we are pleased!

 

busmama, i loved your post....

it really inspired me.

 

seconded

 

Traditional schooling taught my daughter;

Disrespect for others
Fear of others that are different
scarcity (stealing from others)
Bad language
How to hide something that she feels guilty about, and many things that I haven't discovered yet. Does hitting, and being hit constitute socialization?

Now that summer is here, my sweet little girl is coming back, but think of the long term effects of doing this year after year. If these are the things that are going to shape her life experience, I'd rather she never learned algebra. I have a Masters degree in business and three undergraduate degrees in social sciences and I've never used it. Public school has always been lame, but since the "no child left behind" era, you find fewer and fewer expectations. Sure, we can say that children are doing this or that by age whatever, but the truth is testing standards have declined drastically. I mean, when I was in school you would get suspended for using a calculator. Now they're being issued at the beginning of the year. As someone already said....we're being herded, treated like sheep. There is no expectation for kids to THINK. The expectation is for the kids to look good on test scores, make the school look good, and keep the money coming in.

Seriously, my daughter is 5 now and she didn't learn anything that she didn't already know. I know right now that she'll never go back to public school.


Peace

 

If you're taking her out of school Cryptoman, then I propose a toast (a cyber-toast you could call it perhaps? ) to you and your daughter - and to your future of learning and living in freedom!

( :sigh: maybe I'm just getting carried away - don't mind me if that's the case! )

 

We're an unschooling family, but i believe there really is a right and wrong way to go about it. Sitting back, and assuming the kids will learn everything they need to know might work in some cases, but not all. The parent's job is to kind of lead the kid in the right direction, and make sure the basics are covered in one way or another (learning fractions through cooking is an excellent example, thanks Ellis!).

 

I absolutely agree, my son would not be such a musician if we hadn't givin him the benifit of a qualified music teacher, however it has been always his choice to learn music. I am extremely grateful to my brother-in-law for his tutoring in math. As for language, most DVD's have an option to play in different languages it has taught my children loads.

 

Hello. Homeschooling mama here! Homeschooling works for some, but not for all. It was the right choice for our family for many reasons. I highly recommend a book called " Discovering Your Child's Learning Style". It helped us to understand how each of our kids learn and it has made homeschooling that much more enjoyable.

Now, you must realize that homeschooling or unschooling takes discipline just as regular schooling does. You can't be lazy and just forget about education. There still needs to be some organization to the process, but fortunately for homeschoolers it can be more relaxed. We stick to certain subjects that I feel are really important (math, reading, writing, science), but I also allow the kids to explore other subjects of their liking. I have been incorporating the important subjects into every day life and it makes it more fun for them.... so no complaining on their part.

As for socialization, my kids do sports and other fun things. They have friends of all ages that they hang out with during the week and on the weekend. My kids lack nothing in that department. We homeschool for 4 hours in the morning and more if they choose and then we spend the day exploring other things in life. It's great!

Again, it's not for everyone and is something you have to be disciplined in doing as a parent.

 

I hear that Hipmoon! I totally agree with your post from my experiences.


I am a homeschooling father of 3 children this year. We have been homeschooling for 3 years. I have a 4th child, but he is only 3, but is learning by observing his brothers and sister.

I am interested in more the unschooling route once I feel each child seems to be grasping some certain basics well. My oldest almost seems ready, my 2nd oldest it looks like he will be later on than his older brother.

I would like to start a small business. We would all work on together. Something small that could pay a few of the bills but would put us in a wide range of contact with people and issues.

I cannot be more pleased with my kids social skills. They are not perfect by any means. I just have noticed that they do not seem to have a lot of the preconceived notions I had as a kid growing up. They seem to see pass certain things. They don't feel unconfortable with those that are different things that would bother me they don't even think about.

 

I agree. I am all for homeschooling, but kids need to learn basic skills. It is bad enough that there are people going into college now who can't do basic math, can't tell you the five biological kingdoms, etc...and these people went to public school. Kids who are homeschooled should be getting a superior education compare to public schoolers. After all, the whole point of homeschooling is that the public school system sucks.

I am sorry to have to say this, but book smarts are the only thing that really counts in this world and it is the people with these kinds of smarts that get the good jobs. That is the reality, and it is these kinds of skill that kids need to be taught.