womyn are tools?

You're right, I don't. Fish don't need bicycles either right Gloria?

 

I think its the same with men. I don't think either sex should be told what to do and expected to do it. Everyone has their own mind whether they are male or female and if I'm with someone and they don't respect that, then they're out the door lol.

 

Ruby: Then why is there such an industry in how to manipulate men?

 

How did I miss this "industry?"

 

Maggie Sugar: *blinks* You're joking right?

 

No.

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-1699541-3721500?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...1/104-1699541-3721500?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...4/104-1699541-3721500?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...3/104-1699541-3721500?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...2/104-1699541-3721500?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...6/104-1699541-3721500?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=/ref=cm_lm_asin/104-1699541-3721500?v=glance

http://www.magatopia.com/magazines/Cosmopolitan.html?page=index.html

There's always that "10 ways to win an argument" thread.

Let's not get into the Oprah. Dr. Phil, etc. trip. while we're on the subject.

 

No comment, Maggie?

 

Many men (the male collective) believe that without them women would be in the stoneage. That men have created science and technology and thus created a comfortable existance for women. It's quite a common view that poorly educated males have. Such a view is always heavily biased towards man's achievements and always ignorant of the contributions that women make and have made throughout history.


The "average male" equates social/emotional development with technological development and always has an excuse for the negative aspects of the male collective (i.e. the oppression/slavery of women through history and to this present day as well as the abuse and murder of women). A typical male response when challenged on this issue is:

"Yes but men are also violent towards men as well. It's not only women who are unsafe to walk the streets at night" - Believe it or not that is a direct quote from a male I debated with earlier this year. The statement is astonishingly stupid but not at all uncommon.

I have also observed that men cannot take any kind of criticism at all. Of the personal kind or when directed at men in general. If you dare criticise them in any way then they invariably bunch together in a pack and attack you with irrational half-baked ideas.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying all males are like this. But I have been shocked to discover just how many men do behave in this way. I guess it's not surprising when you look at our history on this planet.

What really pisses me off is that with all the problems that men have caused throughout history (and continue to cause) - they have a superior attitude towards women!

Duh!

 

RE: It's quite a common view that poorly educated males have. Such a view is always heavily biased towards man's achievements and always ignorant of the contributions that women make and have made throughout history.

As a card carrying member of the male collective and admittedly completely ignorant, may I ask which achievements these are? Women have achieved much in history, I was wondering what specifically you're referring to.

RE: The "average male" equates social/emotional development with technological development and always has an excuse for the negative aspects of the male collective (i.e. the oppression/slavery of women through history and to this present day as well as the abuse and murder of women).

I'm asking if you could fill me in on this. Being totally oblivious to a better way of living, if you could fill me in on the details I'll bring this up at the collective meeting tonight and maybe I can convince the hive cell in my area to not target and murder and abuse the women we picked out for tonight. Wait, it's Wednesday today right?

RE: A typical male response when challenged on this issue is:

I'm very interested in typical male generalizations....

RE: "Yes but men are also violent towards men as well. It's not only women who are unsafe to walk the streets at night" - Believe it or not that is a direct quote from a male I debated with earlier this year. The statement is astonishingly stupid but not at all uncommon.

Well yes. We here in the collective must keep other men in line. I mean, some of them stray from the stated plan. If one of our number was to treat the women in his life with the modicum of respect the rest of the women will expect this and this might derail the technological advancement we've been working so hard to carry on.

RE: I have also observed that men cannot take any kind of criticism at all. Of the personal kind or when directed at men in general. If you dare criticise them in any way then they invariably bunch together in a pack and attack you with irrational half-baked ideas.

Women, of course, never do this. And they certainly don't hold a grudge for years about it either. I'm glad you pointed this out.

RE: Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying all males are like this.

No, just the average ones. There are a couple who aren't, but we're readying the concentration camps for em.

RE: But I have been shocked to discover just how many men do behave in this way. I guess it's not surprising when you look at our history on this planet.

Yes, you're right.

RE: What really pisses me off is that with all the problems that men have caused throughout history (and continue to cause) - they have a superior attitude towards women!

I am aware of the fact that as a white male I am responsible for the world's evil. Given that you're much much cleverer than me, please let me know, apart from subjugating myself to you, how you propose to redress this situation.

 

That's a big load of bullshit. You may be bitter against women (which is pretty damn obvious), but that doesn't mean your generalizations about women are even close to true. You just spout complete crap and give NOTHING to back it up with. Where are your facts or sources that only one in fifteen million women (or anything even close to that) love their man for who they are?

And what makes you think any women would want a man with an attitude like yours to "come looking" for them?

You obviously only come here to antagonize women for just being women. Grow up.

 

What would you like me to "back up"?

 

RE: And what makes you think any women would want a man with an attitude like yours to "come looking" for them?

What makes you think I would want to?

RE: You obviously only come here to antagonize women for just being women. Grow up.

Nope. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I answer questions posed here honestly.

You know what the best way to make a woman truly unhappy is? Give her everything she wants - that way when she's still miserable she can't blame you.

 

irongoth typed: "We here in the collective must keep other men in line. I mean, some of them stray from the stated plan. If one of our number was to treat the women in his life with the modicum of respect the rest of the women will expect this and this might derail the technological advancement we've been working so hard to carry on."

It's not about men keeping other men in line (nobly and heroically) - It's about the fact that men create most of the problems in this world and blame women for their dysfunction (my mommy made me into a serial killer and I just had to go looking for children to kill in order to get attention).

It's clear that my wording is intended to inflame and anger the "average male" but this is exactly the kind of attack that men make against women all the time (even on forums like this one).

"You know what the best way to make a woman truly unhappy is? Give her everything she wants - that way when she's still miserable she can't blame you." - You're probably full of anti-female jokes and stereotypes, yes? Again this is something I have observed over the past few years. The male collective passing on negative stereotypes from one generation of idiot males to the next.

"You know what the best way to make a woman truly unhappy is? Give her everything she wants - that way when she's still miserable she can't blame you." - If I was a woman on this planet then I would have a lot to be angry/unhappy about. When you consider that women have been abused and oppressed by males for thousands of years. When you consider that even in our so-called civilised society - women are UNSAFE to walk the streets alone. When you consider that women are still enslaved, tortured and murdered around the world. Who are women in danger from? Other women? Overall no. Women are unsafe to walk the streets at night because of men.

As I previously mentioned - the typical male response when they are reminded of this is to state "but men are also unsafe to walk alone at night". The average male is unable to grasp the underlying message... That the streets are unsafe because of male dysfunction.

Ahhhh but wait a minute - there is another typical average male response to this argument: "There are women who kill also. Women can also be violent" - The average male seeks to suggest with this statement that women are just as much to blame. While it would be unreasonable to suggest that women are never violent - if you look at the collective male history versus the collective female history then it is clear where most of the anger and hatred lies. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if there were no men on this planet. How things would have progressed (leave out your facile "but women need men to help make babies" comment - it's just a hypothetical question). This is not a very pleasant world for women overall (nor has it ever been). There are small pockets of safety and happiness but they are just that - small and inconsistent. The average male is so ignorant of the thoughts and feelings of others that he can quite happily exist in a world where men commit attrocities on a daily basis. The average male then has the arrogance and stupidity to pick out the most trivial faults in women as if to say "well we might make atomic bombs that kill thousands of men, women and children but women can be very selfish as well..."

You know what I've observed over the past few years? (as a male and part of the male-collective): There is no greater terror to the male than the idea that he might not be able to hold on to his illusion of power in the future. The idea that women might not only be equal to men - but that they might be better is absolutely unthinkable to the average human male. I can say that as a dysfunctional male I was also terrified at the idea that the male-collective might lose it's illusion of power. Now I actually look forward to that day.

I suggest you go get your male buddies and show them what a "traitor" I am to the male-collective, right Irongoth?

You probably have a whole bunch more arrogant stereotype anti-female jokes ready, yes?

 

RE: It's not about men keeping other men in line (nobly and heroically) - It's about the fact that men create most of the problems in this world

Do we really. Such as?

RE: and blame women for their dysfunction (my mommy made me into a serial killer and I just had to go looking for children to kill in order to get attention).

Well, who raises the boys? I mean come on. Many serial killers had VERY VERY abusive mothers. You can't get around that one, mate. Sorry.

RE: It's clear that my wording is intended to inflame and anger the "average male"

You can say what you like, just don't talk a load of crap.

RE: You're probably full of anti-female jokes and stereotypes, yes?

Actually this was from a (female) marraige counsellor.

RE: Again this is something I have observed over the past few years. The male collective passing on negative stereotypes from one generation of idiot males to the next.

No, I ended up a misogynist from my own personal experience.

RE: If I was a woman on this planet then I would have a lot to be angry/unhappy about.

You sound it.

RE: When you consider that women have been abused and oppressed by males for thousands of years.

And males haven't been by women?

RE: When you consider that even in our so-called civilised society - women are UNSAFE to walk the streets alone. When you consider that women are still enslaved, tortured and murdered around the world. Who are women in danger from? Other women? Overall no. Women are unsafe to walk the streets at night because of men.

Do you know who orders sulphuric acid attacks on brides in India, for example? Other women.

RE: That the streets are unsafe because of male dysfunction.

You'll be happy to know that the Netherlands have considered a tax on being male because males are responsible for all the world's evil. For some reason they decided that tax was wrong. Maybe you might want to go over there and convince em otherwise.

RE: if you look at the collective male history versus the collective female history then it is clear where most of the anger and hatred lies.

So violence is about anger and hatred?

RE: This is not a very pleasant world for women overall (nor has it ever been). There are small pockets of safety and happiness but they are just that - small and inconsistent.

Any of you ladies care to comment on this? If this is true no wonder you're all so upset.

RE: The average male then has the arrogance and stupidity to pick out the most trivial faults in women as if to say "well we might make atomic bombs that kill thousands of men, women and children but women can be very selfish as well..."

But the women vote for the guy who launches the bombs...

RE: There is no greater terror to the male than the idea that he might not be able to hold on to his illusion of power in the future.

So the power men have is actually illusory? That makes a lot of sense. Considering that women run most households, the rulymob has argued for example that you might be mistaken that people who work in grocery stores own all that food.

RE: lose it's illusion of power. Now I actually look forward to that day.

What do you think would change? Just curious.

RE: I suggest you go get your male buddies and show them what a "traitor" I am to the male-collective, right Irongoth?

No, I have no male friends either. I hate men for other reasons. I'm an equal opportunity misanthrope.

RE: You probably have a whole bunch more arrogant stereotype anti-female jokes ready, yes?

Nope. Just answering questions as they come up.

 

RE: RE: and blame women for their dysfunction (my mommy made me into a serial killer and I just had to go looking for children to kill in order to get attention).

OK OK wait.

So it isn't that serial killers are abused in childhood (if you look at various case histories you find serious abuse in childhood) or dysfunctional from their growing up experiences, the reason why serial killers kill people is dysfunction relating to being male?

I don't get how Karla Homolka fits into this picture. Or Lizzie Borden.

 

Can I make up T-shirts "member of the male collective?"

I shudder to ask if we have a Queen.

 

Your lack of awareness might be astonishing to some people. But it is actually unsurprising to me. What I can tell you about yourself is that you are never able to visualize more than one perspective (your own and that of other males). I can also tell you that the more you type - the more you will reveal your distorted and half-baked logic to the more cognitive members of this forum. I have looked at the flow of dialog in this thread and it's clear that every word you type is in anger and with the belief that you (and all males) have suffered greatly at the hands of women.



While some of the female posters here have tried to initiate a less reactive/volatile conversation with you - you have made it clear that you aren't interested in having any calm and pleasant discussion. You are only interested in releasing your anger and of course as with countless other dysfunctional males - that anger is always directed at women. You are someone who doesn't believe he should have to consider anyone else's perspective. You are unable to step outside your own ego and see yourself as others see you.



I have looked at each and every statement you've made throughout this thread and every single line is aggressive and antagonistic. I have argued with any number of your cousins on other forums and they all respond in the same way - they post not out of a genuine interest in a particular subject or through a desire to interact in any positive way with others. They post in order to dominate and suppress anyone who doesn't share their half-baked ideology (most often it's not even half-baked).



If you are unable to force women here to agree with you and accept that they have it easy while you have it hard - you will respond with sarcastic one-liners. Stereotype anti-female jokes. I'm not making wild guesses here - I have observed this same type of Behaviour with your cousins across other forums.



You will spend days arguing and picking fights with women here. If you begin to see that they aren't accepting your view then you will ridicule and belittle them. These are standard-issue male put-downs and control methods.



I can also tell you that nothing I tell you will ever been considered for more than 5 seconds by you. You will automatically reject everything I say because it doesn't fit with your narrow view. Serial killers kill because they are unable to see any perspective but their own. There is no question of making them see things from a wider perspective because they have already developed their fixed and distorted view of reality.



Here are some examples of your partially-baked logic:



"RE: It's not about men keeping other men in line (nobly and heroically) - It's about the fact that men create most of the problems in this world"



"Do we really. Such as?"



Your awareness of world events and world history is so small that you need examples of male dysfunction. I could ask a 6 year old child to sit down and think of examples of how men are bad in this world. If you're old enough to spend your time arguing on a computer forum then you shouldn't have to ask for examples of male dysfunction.



"RE: and blame women for their dysfunction (my mommy made me into a serial killer and I just had to go looking for children to kill in order to get attention)."


"Well, who raises the boys? I mean come on. Many serial killers had VERY VERY abusive mothers. You can't get around that one, mate. Sorry." - You believe that all children are raised exclusively by mothers.



Logic: We should consider some of the hidden variables that might lead to a mother becoming abusive...



1: Existing in a male-dominated world where violence is the norm.

2: Traditionally being forced to worship a God (a male figure that must be feared, loved and respected all at the same time). I once knew a girl from Alabama who used to cut herself. Why? Because her parents were abusive towards her (and her sisters). Why were the parents abusive? Because they were unquestioning religious fanatics who were raised to fear god. So let's take a look at this god/bible thing... Is it female dominated? Is it aimed at empowering females and oppressing males? No. The bible (buy-bull) is intended to perpetuate the idea that a supreme being exists who just happens to have a male persona and that god demands that we fear and respect him. Fear and respect? Sounds familiar? Aren't those things that males demand of other males, women, children and animals? Isn't that what gangster culture is all about? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein murdering "his own people" is all about? Isn't that what George Bush's shock and awe bombardment was all about? Fear and respect.



Perpetuating the myth that men are created to dominate and control and as God used to say "I will give you that women as a slave and you can go take some land from those people by force... You must serve me. Serve me and I will look after you. You will have many slaves and many riches"



Many many abusers have been created over the centuries because they believed in some religion or other. Not simply believed in but believed absolutely and without question. Women have also fallen victim to the bible through the actions of men and also because they were made to feel guilty if they behaved in a way that god disapproved of.



Guilt: It can be used as a powerful weapon by people/entities/deities in order to wreak havoc.



That girl I mentioned in Alabama? She used to cut herself across her arms and wrists. She knew her parents were unpleasant. She knew they were extremely religious people. But she herself had been conditioned to embrace god without question. To the extent that she would quote passages from the bible and cut herself if she felt she had behaved inappropriately.



So to answer your partially-baked statement:



"Well, who raises the boys? I mean come on. Many serial killers had VERY VERY abusive mothers. You can't get around that one, mate. Sorry." - How were those very abusive mothers created? Were they created on a planet inhabited only by women and then exported to Earth to become dysfunctional mothers? Or were they born into a male-dominated world built around a male-figurehead that's overriding message was: Fear, Power and Respect?



I suggest that women have been born into this world. A world that is undeniably geared towards the idea that males dominate and are superior. I suggest that alone causes a great deal of stress for women. The pressures on women are enormous. They are enormous now and they were enormous throughout history.



While you're total ignorance leads you to believe that men have it hard because they have to go out and work - you completely fail to understand that women have it hard from day one because they are born into what is essentially a HOSTILE WORLD. Now I suppose you are also dumb enough to try and suggest that this world overall isn't that bad? I am no longer surprised by the facile idiotic statements males make. The most irritating part as far as I'm concerned is that the average male is too dumb to recognize his stupidity (the first step towards healing is to recognize you're an idiot). In the years that I've been posting on male-dominated forums I have never heard a single male admit their failings. Or acknowledge the negative aspects of the male-collective history. In each and every case - your cousins will seek to divert attention away from their poor track-record by trying to shift the blame for anything and everything - onto women.



What you're effectively doing is judging women ("Well, who raises the boys? I mean come on. Many serial killers had VERY VERY abusive mothers. You can't get around that one, mate. Sorry.") simply on the basis of their actions. I.e. that women also do bad things. It doesn't occur to you that overall the female collective history leans greatly towards peace. Women tend to be good peacemakers and their collective history demonstrates this.



Whenever an arrogant and ignorant male seeks to point out examples of dysfunctional women - those dysfunctional women are struggling to survive in a world dominated and controlled by men. The likes of Iron goth will probably respond with "women aren't slaves any longer - they have equal rights now".



Shall we list the countries where women don't have equal rights? Where they don't even have freedom? And what about our so-called democratic countries? Those ones were men were eventually persuaded to declare women as equal citizens? Well... Even there we have age-old male resentment towards women. You see our democratic society exists in a male-dominated world.



The rest of your so-called counter-arguments can also be dissected and exposed for all their flaws very easily - Iron goth.

I suggest you stop trying to force women to accept your distorted view that men suffer and women are responsible.

 

And why is there such an industry in how to manipulate women?
Just have a look at this site: http://www.getgirls.com/ You can buy lot's of different books and DVDs there, that deal with how to seduce women.

I think you are entirely missing the point, when you think that books about how to get a man to fall in love with you are an argument that supports your distorted view about women and how they think.
The reason why these books exist (for both sexes) is that we have a lot of relationship problems in our society and that there are people trying to make money from that. Duh!

 

No, a couple of silly books doesn't prove an "Industry." Also, I didn't see your post until now, as I had to get off the computer to make dinner for my husband.