Do You Believe in Reincarnation?

There's old souls and new souls is all.

 

I don't know if those who insist that the math doesn't work on reincarnation are being deliberately dense, or just not reading the explanations, including some that I myself gave in an earlier post in this thread.

CLASS:

1) If many people are in their FIRST incarnation as people, then those people don't happen to have any past lives as people at all. Therefore, you don't have to account for them at all, in terms of people who lived in the past but are now dead. (D'oh!)

2) Even the above statement assumes that incarnations progress linearly in time. Consider the following possibilities (and these just scrape the surface):

a) A given soul personality may be incarnated into multiple people at one time.

b) A soul personality may experience "later" incarnations at an EARLIER point in time.

c) Incarnations may be "dream states" vs. a "higher" reality, one which may not even have any sort of time as we understand it.

d) A SINGLE SOUL PERSONALITY (i.e., God) may experience EVERY incarnation, using any combination of (a) through (c) above (among other possibilities).

Any argument that the math doesn't work must DELIBERATELY ignore all of the possibilities mentioned above. In order to make the math fail, you MUST assume (i) that EVERYONE has had at least one past life, i.e. no one is experiencing their FIRST incarnation as a person, and (ii) that incarnations are sequenced linearly in time. Throw out either of those assumptions, and you can no longer state that the math doesn't work! PERIOD. (Double D'oh!)

Final conclusion: the math DOES work, once you get rid of assumptions that may not even hold up in the first place.

By the way, this is NOT proof for reincarnation as such. It's simply a demonstration that only one particular version of reincarnation doesn't work out on the math; you can't make a blanket statement without considering ALL of the possibilities. And if you think the alternatives I listed are are weird, just try reading some of the speculative articles about the nature of the universe that appear from time to time in Scientific American.

You're welcome to your own beliefs whatever they are; I personally like to keep multiple contradictory belief systems going at one time! However, if you're going to try to dispute someone else's beliefs on the basis of logic, you ought to keep an open mind (at least that you haven't considered all of the alternative explanations), or at least learn how to USE LOGIC CORRECTLY!

I'm sorry if this came across as a bit nasty, but I'm getting tired of people who keep sticking to the same old tired arguments to knock someone else's beliefs, without stopping to examine any legitimate alternative explanations. And I'm sure that I'm not alone here!

In the end, NO ONE KNOWS for sure what happens "after" death; you can't even logically rule out most of the possibilities! However, many of us have some evidence, at least on a personal level, for believeing what we believe, and the nature of such evidence is impossible to objectively either validate or deny.

Hell, "objectivity" is itself as subjective a viewpoint as any other; true objectivity is both logically impossible (thanks to Godel) and completely impractical. Logic can't even "prove" itself; it turns out that even a "proof" of consistency leads DIRECTLY to a proof of inconsistency (again, thanks to Godel)!

Peace & Love (& Up Yours Too)! LOL!

 

The 'tangle' of my earlier post highlights in part what i am trying to say. I could have articulated myself a lot better and come across as if i knew what the hell i was talking about (like you did). Instead it was a 'tangle' of a idea strewn together with a few semi complicated connections, from multiple sources of information my tiny mind had gathered together. I don't have multiple personalities (not that i know of ) from previous lifes, inflicting there memories and influences/experiances/knowledge on me. I just need to train my thoughts and atriculate them in a mature fashion. I could be imature and say 'All this past life shit, is bollocks' i am saying the same thing in both instancies; one is just a bit more thoughful.
Imagine the wit and verve and insight of anyone who wishes to invelope themselves in books that is the only true instance of man/woman involving themselves in past lifes .

I said it confuses the arguement, because if you realy think about it philosophical ideas solve the most intrinsicaly illogical concepts with a brief 'if'. No ifs or buts in my view. the concept of 'afterlives' and 'reincarnation' started when we became self aware and our minds became abstract. So the whole debate about reincarnation is a nonsense because we are continualy becoming more and more 'sophisticated' and progressing our very simplistic notions to a ever greater degree. I am sure if you read over writings of the 'great minds' of history, a lot of it would be complete bumkum and even some of my thoughts would be more insightful.. Not because they were not thinking, merely they did not have the point of reference like we do now (at this juncture in time). In a few decades 'our' way of thinking will become 'old' also as the very living 'collective concious' moves on, i think they call it a paradigm shift.

Way to much to respond to , i understand what your saying and i think you might notice in a haphazard fashion, i am not far off what your getting at ?.

The the whole point of 'forums' is to share thoughts.. hiding away will just be counter productive. I am sure people can walk through or around our ramblings if they were to continue.

 

so you're saying that only some souls are reincarnated, the rest are manufactured new


I'm sorry I just don't see that as reasonable, it's either an open system or a closed system


and what about those 8 people (at least) who were hypnotized, did all the folde rol to be "legit" and came back as previous julius caesars?


it's just genetic memory, live with it.....

 

Actually, I think that we've had enough of this particular argument. You go believe what you want to believe, you will anyway, as do all of us.

Besides, judging by your remarks, you guys are totally clueless about my own REAL line of argument, which I've already spelled out, and which (surprise!) has NOTHING AT ALL to do with reincarnation per se! I bet you NEVER figure it out, even though it's in plain sight (just check out some of my prior posts). So try and prove me wrong!

Peace & Love (& Up Yours)! LOL!

 

No, I'm just saying some are older than others, that souls are multiplying too. IMO, only, of course. And those 8 people +/-, I've known somebody whose regression pointed to Jesus. What the explanation was is that they were someone who was close to Jesus and overwhelmed by the strenth of the personality. I'm sure Ceasar was a very 'strong' personality, too. Again, this is all just my beliefs and in no way invalidates what others chose to believe.

 

Scientifically I am sceptical of the idea and have as yet to see any convicing proof.Having said that I have a niggly feeling that love at first sight is because you recognise that person who was dear to you in a previous life. I sometimes wonder if gay men have been woman in previous incarnations.What about tomboys? Were they men in previous lives?

 

Hormones/pheromones/testosterone/estrogen

 

I totally dig the theory of re incarnation but can anyone convince me. I mean come on. It just seems so fake. I openly express my doubt on the basis that ive never experienced it (at least i dont think i have) and ive never seen it. Could some one explain it to me please.

 

Did you read any of the post within this thread ? ...

 

Mathew i read absolutely everything in this thread. Can any one convince me its real. I dont find it to be plausible at all

 

that came out a bit rude (of me)..SORRY. If you totaly dig the idea, just go with that. The time you find out it is real or not, you will be experiancing the effects of DEATH.. so just 'believe'.

 

I had a guy once tell me he just didn't understand why people where so afraid of death. Either it's like you believe (if you believe in something after death) or there is nothing. Whichever, what's there to fear? I guess if you believe in hell and you've been bad................

 

True..though personaly i have experianced the fear of death (many many times) generaly it the twighlight of the morning or realy late at night..it is a realy strange and frightning experiance, generaly the lack of something (not sure what ?) brings it on ??. I don't have any fear of going to heaven or hell.. just the END.

 

I understand, I think. Life is GOOD. The world is a wonder-filled, beautiful place and being alive is a blast, isn't it?

 

'at the end of the day' it is a 'blast'.. thats the point i suppose, at the end of the day aka death bed. when i reflect back on 'life' i will miss it.

The 'feeling' of death i mention is a complicated feeling to express, if you have had it you know about it.

 

As a Buddhist, I believe in rebirth according to the laws of karma, although I think that the concept is often misunderstood.

 

i believe in it, i think that if there is something you have heard, read about, seen, dreamt etc or something you just have a strong interest in then it happened to you in a past life. for example mine was i was a pirate ,i was on the titanic, they are the only ones i can remember at the moment but i have alot more things to go through in my life and hopefully will be able to remember some more xxx

 

i think you may have been hatty jakes in one of your past life "s mathew. .......carry on