Open Relationships

4-D Relationships The way these relationships normally work
INTEGRATION + REINTEGRATION

Everything and everyone are really all connected.



HONESTY + OPENNESS

Total honesty with my partner. With honesty, my partner gets to know who I truly am. Honesty means being 100% who I truly am. I do not withhold a comment or information just to avoid hurting my partner, or to control the relationship.
I can never really know or predict what will hurt another or how they will react to my honesty. Therefore, I should stop assuming responsibility for the other person's emotions, growth, & reactions to my honest non-manipulative communications.



RELATIONSHIPS BY CHOICE

Monogamy-by-choice or
Polygamy-by-choice or
Poly-Fidelity-by-choice.
There is no inherent "right" or "wrong" to any type of relationship: They are all inherently neutral. Any type of relationship is "okay". If I choose monogamy, this does not mean that I expect or need my partner to also choose monogamy.


UNCONDITIONAL LOVE

Even if you don't fulfill my needs and expectations, I will still love you. I love you for who you are without trying to change you.


BEING IN THE PRESENT

Commitment would take me out of the present. I stay in the present, and I do not need a commitment, because I trust that the future will take care of itself.


NO EXPECTATIONS

I trust and have no expectations from my partner. I enjoy my partner, but without expectations.


ALLOWINGNESS

I allow my partner to be who they need to be. Only then can I see who they truly are.


ABSOLUTE TRUST

I trust that everything that occurs is for my highest good. Therefore, I have no desire or need to control my partner.

PERSONAL GROWTH TAKES PRECEDENCE TO RELATIONSHIP.

SELF-SUFFICIENCY

I recognize that I, and only I, am the creator of my own reality. Therefore, only I, am the generator of my own Happiness.

A PERSON CAN FULLY LOVE MORE THAN ONE PERSON.

4-D emphasizes Multiplicity.
No matter how many other people my partner loves, this does not diminish at all, in any way, how much love he/she has for me. No matter how many other people I love, this does not diminish at all, in any way, how much love I have for my partner.

MY PARTNER SPENDING LESS TIME WITH ME IS FINE.

If I truly love myself unconditionally, then the time spent with myself is equal in value to the time spent with my partner. I love myself as much as I love my partner.Therefore, the time I spend alone is just as enjoyable as the time spent with my partner. Therefore, it's okay if I spend less time with my partner.


HAPPINESS, PLEASURE, & ECSTACY

There is never any pain, only happiness, pleasure, and ecstasy, when I function from the 4-D relationships "mind-set".


ENDING A RELATIONSHIP

does not create PAIN & LOSS. In realizing that this relationship is no longer serving us, we choose to harmoniously end it. We recognize that the relationship is going in different directions, and so we allow it to end, without any hard feelings. Only with love.


FEELING CONNECTED TO SIGNIFICANT OTHERS.

Even if my partner is far away (in space), or even if I haven't seen my partner for a long time I still feel very connected to them. Whereas separation is an illusion, being actually connected-together is the reality.


ANGER AT MYSELF

(Internalized anger) I am angry at myself for creating a reality that I do not prefer.

I CREATE MY OWN REALITY.

Self-Responsibility
Self-Empowerment
I create my own reality, and this even includes other people's reactions to my actions. I can never be hurt by another person. I can never hurt another person. Only I am responsible for my reactions to other people's comments or actions.

BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE TO MY PARTNER & OUR RELATIONSHIP

I am pure in my intention in my relationship. I am 100% who I truly am with my partner. I am responsible for what, in my integrity, I would like to give to our relationship.

 

For me sexuality is foremost a spiritual union with another person, the physical act is part of it, but not the main aspect. The bliss when you go beyond the orgasm that is triggered by stimulation of the genitals, is far greater. It is a cosmic experience, that brings you closer to the devine.
What ever kind of kinky sex, for me it doesn't compare to what I experience with my partner through the practise of tantra.
This is why I don't have anything against open ralationships, but don't consider them an option for myself.

No offence Libertine, but to me it seems that the main thing about your "open relationship" is, that you enjoy having threesomes with two women.
You said yourself, that your partner didn't have sex with another guy on her own, nor that you had threesomes with another guy involved.
I wonder how you felt when your partner would fuck another man and was telling you afterwards what an enormous dick he had and how he gave her the best orgasms of her life. Would you really still think open relationships are that great? Would you thank the other guy for giving your partner the best sexual experience of her life? Or would you maybe feel a bit awkward and wished she hadn't had the desire to fuck anybody else than you, but that the two of you would have worked on experiencing that kind of bliss together?

I think it is very important to feel good about ones own body and have an active sex life, but imo that doesn't equal having many different sexual partners or having sex with more than one person at a time.
What we call sexual liberation has imo in many ways degraded human sexuality, because it focusses mainly on the physical act and leaves out the potential of reaching higher consciousness through sexual union.
Getting aroused by dominiance, being abused, or watching other people fuck one's partner is imo not a healthy sexlife, but rather sick.
For me sexuality is at it's best when there is a balance of the energies of shiva&shakti, yin&yang and these forces merge in a spiritual union, that takes the consciousness to another level and opens up the doors to the devine.

Because of the fulfillment I get from the sexuality I share with my partner I never feel the desire or even think about having sex with another person than him. No need for an open relationship here.

 

I forgot something earlier...

Although I don't believe everything science "proves" anyways, simply because theories have turned out to be wrong too many times, I would still like you to elaborate on that statement a bit, since to my knowledge there is no proof that monogamy is unnatural for human kind. Thanks

 

Anyway you slice it a relationship breaks down to love or fear. If you have love in your relationship, that's great, but too many people call fear "love"

Qoute:
You said yourself, that your partner didn't have sex with another guy on her own, nor that you had threesomes with another guy involved.
I wonder how you felt when your partner would fuck another man and was telling you afterwards what an enormous dick he had and how he gave her the best orgasms of her life. Would you really still think open relationships are that great? Would you thank the other guy for giving your partner the best sexual experience of her life? Or would you maybe feel a bit awkward and wished she hadn't had the desire to fuck anybody else than you, but that the two of you would have worked on experiencing that kind of bliss together?

If that were the case (the reaction to her pleasure) the relationship would be one of fear, not love. The fear of inadequacy, the loss of control and self esteem wouldn't be factors in a relationship of love.

I think it is very important to feel good about ones own body and have an active sex life, but imo that doesn't equal having many different sexual partners or having sex with more than one person at a time.

But does it exclude it?

What we call sexual liberation has imo in many ways degraded human sexuality, because it focusses mainly on the physical act and leaves out the potential of reaching higher consciousness through sexual union.

How do multiple partner relationships exclude this? I've lived with others in a group relationship that was very close. In relationships like this where there is no fear and jealousy, you can reach a level of trust and intimacy far beyond that of the imposed exclusive relationship. When you experience a relationship without fear (whether monogamous, or polygamous) that is where the true higher consciousness comes in.

Getting aroused by dominiance, being abused, or watching other people fuck one's partner is imo not a healthy sexlife, but rather sick.

I agree with the first two, but seeing my partner experiencing pleasure derived from any source could not, imo, constitute being sick. I'm not afraid she'll love me less, or find me less satisfying. These are ego trips that DO NOT come from love, but fear.


For me sexuality is at it's best when there is a balance of the energies of shiva&shakti, yin&yang and these forces merge in a spiritual union, that takes the consciousness to another level and opens up the doors to the devine.

You have to admit that it's different for different people. Not everyone is rigidly male or female in their sexuality. There are many bi sexual people out there that would like the experience of both male and female energy to balance themselves sexually.


Because of the fulfillment I get from the sexuality I share with my partner I never feel the desire or even think about having sex with another person than him. No need for an open relationship here.

I think that it's wonderful that you and your partner are in a relationship where you are both completely fulfilled. I have to say though that it is fairly rare that relationships occur where there is no attraction for others outside the relationship. I have to wonder, how would you react if your partner came home and told you that he had had fallen in love with someone else, and that he wanted you to meet them? or how would he react if you told him the same thing?

In the end, if it's a question of pure sexual pleasure without a true loving relationship, it won't be fulfilling with one partner or many. You gotta have love.

 

Oh and committed monogamous relationships became the norm after Christianity dictated it's appropriateness. Pagans were quite happy on May Day (and other occasions), and the children born of these unions were highly thought of in their social structure. The child whose father was unknown was raised with the knowledge that they could be the child of almost any male in the village.

Prehistoric man took more than one woman to insure the propagation for his line and prehistoric woman accepted more than one male in case her first male was killed or became injured and unable to provide, again for basic survival of herself and her children.

Many Native American tribes have a history of multiple wives in a family, but not multiple husbands.

I read too much...

Peace

 

Of course I am only speaking from my own experiences and I do not claim to know what is right and what is wrong. That's why I wrote that I don't have anything against polygamous relationships, but don't consider it an option for myself.

When I was a student the idea of polygamous relationships was very popular and me and my friends have been experimenting with it ourselves. From all I experienced I can say, that it caused more trouble than it did good.
If it works for you, that is fine with me.
What disturbes me is when people say monogamy is unnatural and is a phenomenon of being sexually inhibited.

From my knowledge it is not true that monogamous relationships got only established with the rise of christianity, but that it has been a common form of human relationships for much longer time than that.
To my knowing there have been only very few people in ancient/pagan societies that were living polygamous and these were those male, that were considered to be the strongest and most vital and who therefore where supposed to spread their sperm to breed a strong society. The "average" man was living in monogamous relationships and those whose genes were considered somewhat inferior were not supposed to reprocreate at all. There were fertility celebrations/ritulised sexuality on special occasions, but that wasn't the daily practice.
Even within tribes or religions that allow polygamous relationships nowadays, the practice is often discouraged and is mainly practised to ensure the survival of the tribe in case of war or famine.
In other tribes, were many men are married to the same woman, this is usually practised to ensure that the land/property stays within the family and doesn't get split up.

Just because I don't share sexuality with more than one person at a time doesn't mean that I only feel love for one person at a time.
That are two different things for me.
I have friends that I love, male and female, I love my family, old and young, but I don't have sexual exchange with all these people.
If my partner or I would have sexual desire for other people I would conclude that our sexuality isn't fulfilling and would work on changing that, rather than looking for this fulfillment outside of our relationship.
Imo sexuality is a major aspect of a happy relationship and if the sexuality isn't fulfilling than I think the relationship lacks a major basis and probably would better be terminated.

It requires quite a bit of knowledge, practice, patience and love to explore sexuality as a gateway to the devine and from my experience it works better and is more beneficial for the personal and spiritual growth to concentrate the exchange of the (to me holy) energy of sexuality on one person and not to spread it out.

Again, I am not ruling out polygamy as being wrong, or saying that it can't work at all.
What I am objecting to is when people are portraying polygamy as the right way and are ruling out monogamy as some (christian) restrictions we have to overcome.

 

What I'm saying is that there is no "right" or "wrong" form of relationship. Either form can be right or wrong. If you tried multiple relationships, or something approaching it and it didn't work for you, you have to ask, why did we try it and why didn't it work. If it was hurt feelings, jealousy or a combination, The experiment was based in fear and I agree that these situations will never work. If the relationship didn't suffer, and there was no struggle, just a mutual decision to focus attention on one another instead of scattering your energy, then it was based in love and I can totally respect such a decision.

As for the spread of christianity and monogamy...I may be wrong, but most if not all earth based religions didn't require monogamy. It was always a choice. Yes monogamy did occur naturally, but it was christianity that enforced a mandatory monogamous relationship through church doctrine. They took the choice away. I'll also agree that history favors the males and love probably had a small role in most of the cultures.

What matters more than anything is that you're honest with yourselves and your partners. Whether it's with one person or a whole village. Use the divine inspiration of love to make the relationship all that it can be and don't play the fear game.

P.S. There are many (well most) people who have way too much fear and insecurity to even begin to consider allowing their partner to be free. In all choices, not just sexual.

Peace and Love

 

right on ...crypto man

to all of it

 

I have to agree with what eleria said. I personally have just found a higher conection when I am with one person in a momogamist relationship. Whatever works for everyone and is between consenting adults is great. I have been in open relationships that have worked fine as well but I never connected on the level that I do with one man. Not saying if there came a time one of us wanted to explore something else that we may not do that but maybe I prefer to channel that kind of energy into one person, to achieve a high I've never had in an open relationship thats ok too. Maybe it's because I had more than my share of fun with exploration and now feel like I haven't missed out on anything and just appreciate all that two people can share together that eleria eloquently spoke of.

Funny crypt, that you just stated that monogamy occured naturally. There are many animals that remain monogamist their whole lives. And ummm.....lmao, us monogamists aren't keeping love or sex from anyone. Most that remain alone would prefer it to an open relationship I believe, and some people even choose to live alone. Stupid thing is I've seen people cheat...in monogomist relationships and open ones. It does sound like a few people here have found out how to have an amazing relationship no matter what paths they chose, and thats all that really matters in the end after all.

 

I think it's great that you've found everything that you desire in a monogamous relationship, and yes, monogamy does occur naturally as does polyamory, (though polyamory occurs more frequently in nature). Monogamy isn't anything to be ashamed of. It isn't any less valid than polyamory. My wife and I have been monogamous for the last year and a half. Not because of any restrictions placed on the relationship, but because neither of us have met anyone that strikes that spark. At this point, it's not about exploration and sexual conquest anymore. That was left behind long ago. It's about meeting someone(s) that we both feel a real strong bond with. If that never happens, we're both very fulfilled in the relationship that we have. It's not about the number of people that are involved in the relationship, it's about honoring the love you feel for someone...for everyone. As someone pointed out earlier, there are many forms of relationships. We love our friends and family in ways that are not sexual because we just don't feel that for them. It's the denial of a sexual connection and love of that person to "save" someones feelings that makes me sad. What you're saying to them is, "I don't think your ego is strong enough to handle the truth, so I'll play this game in order to keep you safe. I'll honor your FEAR and reject this form of LOVE that I feel." That kind of mentality robs all parties involved of truth, honesty, and connection with spirit. I'm not saying that this applies to anyone here, I'm just expanding on my point.

And as for the church, they can dictate propriety, but can't enforce it. Earth based religions were here first, and old ways never really die.

 

Well, thats why I left is as if theres something one of us wanted to explore...because I don't know what may arise in the future and neither my relationship nor I am defined by sex alone....I just know what works for me at the moment and I truly enjoy seeing that there are some people with good strong lines of communication open in their relationships whatever their choices. I see break downs with both choices and it all seems to come down to communication break downs.

 

After saying all that ..Hmmm I will def wait for the right one .. but it appears that in my confusion it is becuase I am respectful to others thoughts etc ...but its not good for me to get "involved" in all that ...Yeh I think the connection with an individual is sacred and nothing compares to it ...

 

seeing as how you are a compulsive lier there has never been real cumuncation in any relationship you have ever had

 

LOL!! That why I remain friends with almost everyone I've ever been with whereas everyone you have ever been with doesn't even speak to you.....hmmmm....coughtrippincough....
Like I suggested in all the other posts you are flaming me on, go forth, seek meds, get a life!! You have been gone for a week short of 6 months and the last communication besides an occational nastygram in my email has been over 4 months. Piss off yah wanker!

# Flaming/Trolling: Flames are posts intended to insult and provoke. Posters who speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude will be banned. Repeated posts directed with hostility at a particular person or group of people or their beliefs will be cause for banning. Any individual who chronically trolls, who regularly posts arguments, flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion will be banned.

 

gdhmomchild, steffan, you are both guilty in this attack stuff. (Nothin personal, but c'mon!) Both of you, please take this off the boards. GDHmomchild, ignore these and don't respond, steffan, please do the same. If you two need to discuss something do it in e mail or on the phone. This isn't the place for it.

Anymore and I'll deal with it with more than just deleting posts. This is silly, you are both adults. Deal with it, and/or ignore each other. Nuff said.

 

My wife and I are polyamourous.

We love each other beyond words, are completly satisfied with what we have. We have never been bored of each other, or desired to have another partner. We just never kidded ourselves.

People are capable of loving multiple people. To say that it isnt true love if you love more than one is horribly closed-minded. YOUR love may not feel true if you love someone else, but how can you define something so large as love through your own small experiences?

I do love another woman, i do not love one more than the other, love isn't beans in a pile to be divied up between them. Love is huge, and the more you love, the more love you have to give. It is endless, without bounds.

We arent swingers, neither of us has ever had another sexual partner since we have been together. We have fooled around, in fun, with others, but never has my wife blessed another man with her body. She is far too picky, and has found no man more deserving that she has deemed me, and doesnt see the point. She says that I satiesfy her is all ways, why would she need another, she doesnt need to give it away.

We cant stop making love to each other to do someone else. After 7 years of marriage even!

Open relationships work, but only if you are honest. Sex with others isnt wrong, dishonest sex with others is wrong. Loving another is good, dishonestly loving another is wrong. If it has an affect on your family, negativly, then it is wrong. I have never let my love for my other love come before my wife and family. I would be wrong to do that. I maintain a fine balance, and it works, with the occasional bump lol.

It takes a strong love too.

 

What a great discussion!


I would love to be in a poly marriage, but my husband isn't secure enough with it and I'd never do anything to make that worse, but I totally agree that it comes from fear.

I'm "afraid" to hurt him with the knowledge of my desires. He's "afraid" of my attractions to others (men and women) fearing I would leave him/find someone better.

That is so not how I feel about it. I feel *for myself* it comes very naturally to love more than one person in a sexually intimate way.

I've enjoyed reading through all of your thoughts on this.

 

It's refreshing to see such an honest response. No apologies, no excuses, just...this is the way it is. It's so awesome that you aren't mired down with guilt and resentment.

Peace and Love

 

the connection can be great .. its just that most human behavior I have observed people "use" the alleged connection that they claim to have with others as well as thier mate ...but soemone always admits to be connected with one more than the other .. which tells me what they have with teh third member / or is perhaps an illusion to "hook" the other member to thier convenience and no longer regard the other persons feelings once they feel they "got them hooked".. feelings matter or people would not form a union to begin with.. "if" they had to choose .. there is always one that would get the preference over the other .. and there is no way a person should have to wait around to be a mere convenience ...that means the connection was never real .. that means it was only a convenience to serve only a superficial/convenient purpose and that is what takes the allure away from most "open" type relations .. I admit that I looked at other men etc .. when I was with my fella .. but I KNEW I could never nor want to form the kind of connection I had with him...so essentially to act on our thoughts we are really just "playing" with other people .. other people who deserve the kind of connection we all may seek or already have ..I tried to be part of it all but its like there was no time made or left for me to get to know the person on a real intimate or emotional level .. which essentially lent the truth that it was only a physical allure ...not all connect beyond that conversation ...it only reminds the other of how much they really love the one they are with or need to be with .. I am only speaking statistically .. I am sure there are the 3rd wheelers that feel loved .. feel connected and feel part of it all .. but it doesnt always work that way so strictly its a matter of what works at that time for everyone

 

uhg I cant get edit to work .. and I need it BIG time ... lol ..I just pefer a private .. intimate ..one on one ... connection ..and it cannot be establish or even begun if its monitored at all time ..... I prefer to not to be monitored by a third member .. that bother me to no end .. it only seems to be a game when its being monitored .. people will say "Well everything is in the open ... " Well that is true but if it is so solid .. and in the open .. then trust us enough to let us be alone a while so that we can bond ... otherwise its impossible .. I just dont see how that is possible with anything like that ... either way I dont think that its my thing ..but I appreciate it and understand it .. but it can be just as complicated as anything ..