We want freedom!

i think you can make a generalization that men do pay mostly for first dates...but thats how it SHOULD BE...normally men ask women out, not the other way around..so why shuold the other pay? That would be like a friend offering to take you out to dinner and then wanting you to pay....

 

Not quite the experiences I know about...

Many many times have I seen man paying because if he doesn't it means he is cheap, not her.

 

yeah, its definitely not an impression you want to give a woman who you barely know...

 

You are kidding right?

You see when I was in India, I was not told to be "insensitive" , no one said - "you are girly" or you act like that , but when I came to USA when I was in my middle school years , things changed and it was so different. I used to like pink in India, but in America, i was made fun of (beyond your imagination). I cried, people called me "sissy" , I showed my affections for stuffed animals (because i thought they were cute) and I showed my affections to flower pictures and kept them in my locker,- that was so wrong that I received physical threats, I was even afraid people were going to kill me

I hated my schooling years here and still do, because the fact is I was stressed by my "family" that was already living here and the kids at school to act in some way- like a "guy".

I was called gay at school if I said I like somethings like lets say flower pictures in my locker or something like stuffed animals. I was made fun of if I said "I liked pink" why? -something wrong with me? no, it was because the kids here were brainwashed by adults who told them to act in some way to
maintain their machoness from the time they were kids.

The fact is its ridiculous, kids did not know what gay is in India , but when I came here, everything uncool was "gay" . You are so "gay" coming from the sender of the message was to make the receiver of this message, gay and the sender "cool" . You cry: you are "such a sissy" .

Everyday did i spend like hell until i got to high school then atleast people stopped calling me retarded.

The views of adults are passed on to kids and adults here in america brainwash their kids into fitting into their gender roles.

What was wrong with this type of treatment of mine? It totally COULD HAVE smashed my self esteem, made me a cynic, made me more aggressive and receptive to things like drugs , destroy my intellect and leave me a depressed individual who is going to be prone to things like suicide. I thank god that did not happen...because i had more brains than the idiotic kids who were making fun of me.
Anyway, enough with my self pity! , the point however is that:


I am not saying "you americans are like this" because i am myself now an american. However, what I am saying is, we can change by our mistakes, lets stop teaching kids to make them fit into specific gender roles, lets try to abolish these roles and let them be what they want to be and respect each one as individuals, not as men or women.

You cannot say "don't care" , because thats not possible, if you are in a society , you have to care atleast a little bit of what people think of you. Living a solitary life in this age is unnatural and impractical . you have to live in a society , we are social beings.

 

no i wasnt kidding.
of course it matters to some extent what people think. the notion that men are not allowed to be sensitive and things without being gay is absolute crap. who knows where that started in society and unfortunatley it is still very prevalent. however, it is up to you as an individual to help change that. if you care enough about what other people think that you would try to change yourself to be more "macho" than that isnt helping the issue at all. the best way to help it would be to be proud of who you are....pink sweaters and all.....and screw everyone else. As far as the death threats and all that...that is another issue entirely. Kids and teenagers are cruel and bullying happens in schools all the time for all kinds of reasons. My point was that if you want to change things in the aspect of the way men are "supposed to be", well then it starts with you.

 

hahahahahaha, Astrocat was banned!

 

Sorry, but you are wrong here. Women do more often than not seek out men who make more. And when a woman makes more than a man, it is only a marginal amount. I've heard it enough times how women have made comments about earning more than men and how it "hurts" the man's ego, but to be quite honest, I think most women who earn more than a man deep down feel contempt for that man, and resent having to pull the weight when it comes to income.

Dismissing it as "just a nice thing to do" is pretty droll; if the roles were reverse, such a thing would be yet another feminist issue, as it is a disparity, and indicative of how our society is inherently sexist and unequal--oh, but when it benefits women, it's "just a nice thing to do." Okay, whatever.

 

Well, no, that's NOT the way it should be. If the woman accepts, then she should pay as well, as she has accepted because she is interested in him. I think this is only fair. Why should a man have to constantly shell out money in his quest to find a mate, while a woman can sit there and get a free ride. Sounds pretty cheap to me.

 

because you ask them out....i've gone on dates where i know jack shit about the girl....except a few random things and her name....i dont think she should have to pay if i ask her out..but thats just how i feel...btw, this was for the first date only...after the second date you should know if its something worth pursuing further or a total no..then the two can start covering for each other..but thats how i feel.

 

Well, if that's the way you feel about it, then go right ahead. I just think that it's an antiquated concept, even if it's only for the first date. I just can't agree with the idea that a woman should be considered a possession, whose friendship, presence and devotion needs to be bought and reinforced with money.

 

No one should feel that an individual should be considered a possession whose friendship, presense and devotion needs to be bought and reinforced with money.

The fact is that women and men try to rule one another and it is a fact, it is time that we realize that we cannot rule anyone and infact we are ourselves dependent on each other.

Lets all just have a BIG BEAR HUG ! j/k

 

i dont know where you get the idea that if you pay for a dinner for a woman that you "own" her. I'm sure most women would find that repulsive, and most men would too.

 

start behaving like that and see where it gets you... dont listen to what people say about how they would respond to that gender behavioural juxtapostion and observe how they actually respond... you will be left out to dry... alone... it is extremely difficult to consciously deny the deeply ingrained learnt (?) social expectations residing in the unconcious depth of our minds... they inadvertantly will impact ones' judgement of those that do not conform... just look at the choices people actually make when the pair-off.

 

Well, a lot of women do expect to be "taken care of." That doesn't mean all do. There are a lot of men who are only on a date to get laid, but that doesn't mean thatall are! It denpends of the person!

 

It depends on the society and the upbringing.

 

Incorrect. BoyTheo was banned due to repeated personal attacks! These are against forum rules, and are only enforced in serious situations, where the offender has been warned and still continues. And it happened after the reorganization. He added NOTHING to the forums, except to irritate people, and we are all better off that he is gone. He was a sick fuck. Did you see his website? Scary,womyn hating, serial killer attitude shit.

No one is the worse for his departure.

The mods did their job well in this instance.

 

Yes Ma'am, you are right.

 

As for a Men's Issues Forum. It would be a good idea. But seeing as it isn't being done, WHY NOT START ONE YOURSELF????? jimaan has bitched about the lack of a men's forum, yet won't cough up the hefty fee of ten bucks to JOIN THE BOARD as a supporter so he can start his own men's forums. Jeez, quit complaining and DO something about it! You have the ability. What is stopping you?

 

I am a poor man, I can't pay for the things here or atleast choose not to do so.
I cannot argue with not having a men's forum here, because this isn't a government related forum. If this was controlled by the government, then I would complain too.

And when it comes to complaining, I am sure someone will continue to complain. Why? because it is morally not right to give women their forum and deny a man , his forum.

its a free country, you cannot stop any one from complaining, things only change when you complain, if you don't complain they don't change. Complaining is a good thing.