A 6 part study regarding the history of Tibet, the system under Dalai Lama, and the case of China's involvement in Tibet. Tibet was no Disneyland. Read and understand how the situation was: http://rwor.org/a/firstvol/tibet/tib-in.htm
wow, talk about propaganda! Tibet used to be a warlike nation, back in the 1400s but soon after, they disolved the military and converted all of their resources to education and religion. Monastaries did not "own" the people. The people worked to support the monastaries because religion played and plays such a huge role in their lives. Every family had a son or daughter in a monastary. China did not spark a "revolution" in Tibet, it launched a militarisitic invasion, overthrow of the autonomous government, and then a brutal military occupation. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not a slave owner! To believe everything in this report is to deny the facts and true history of Tibet. I could go on...
So because this is not what the Western propaganda tells you, then it's not true? This is not a rhetoretical question, but a real one.. Do you deny that Tibet was a feudalist country, ruled by a religious elite? If you believe that is not correct, A personal friend of mine from China (from Qingdao), wrote about a few customs in Tibet. Tibet's Heavenly Burial, Has anyone heard of it? They cut the dead guy's corpse into pieces and feed them to the eagles and vultures. Attached Image Thats the highest honor u can receive in Tibet...In the old days you can only get it when you are a high priest or ridiculously rich. Is that disneyland? I saw very little concrete facts in your post. But here are som facts: Do you deny this, or do you accept it as a fact? If you deny it, what part of what I quoted, and why do you deny it? Where are your concrete facts, and second, where are your sources?
Hey, dumbass, they believe that after the body is dead it is of no more use to the person, and is only meat at that point. Their thinking is why not feed the birds instead of the worms.
Nobody is saying that pre-1949 (or "Old Tibet") Tibet was some sort of utopian paradise. Those that do are just as misguided and denying of the true history of Tibet as the author of the Revolutionary Worker article. Now read this by Joshua Michael Schrei: "A Lie Repeated--the Far Left's Flawed History of Tibet" It is in response to Michael Parenti's article "Friendly Feudalism." The Parenti article is very similar to the Revolutionary Worker one. Schrei writes: "A lie told a hundred times becomes the truth." -Chairman Mao
So in your opinion the genocide and religious persecution in Tibet at the hands of the *communist* chinese is justified? So, by your reasoning, all the feudalist countries in the middle east, ruled by a religious elite, deserve to be oppressed and overrun? You sound a lot like george w. Or is it just that, as long as it's COMMUNISTS doing the oppressing, the persecuting, and the killing it's A-OK? If it's capitalists, then it's evil. Perfect illustration of the "communist double standard". BTW, who cares WHAT they do to a corpse after one is dead. Check out what the chinese are doing to the LIVING Tibetans... That's what is important. By some cultures' standards, burying a human corpse in the manner of western cultures is abhorrent. What does it prove--Nothing.
As far as I know, there are no feudalist nations in the Middle East. The mode of production in the Middle East is capitalist. If a revolution will lead to the workers and peasants emancipation from the the ruling class, then I suggest the members of the theocracy should be shot and burned in best Islamist fashion. There is nothing great about the system in the middle east, nor in Tibet.
You got all of your information about Tibet from that one source, a source that happens to allign itself with the Chinese propaganda machine, spouting many similar themes put forth by them. But the truth is that the author of that article has never been to Tibet, nor talked to Tibetans within Tibet. HH the Dalai Lama has already said that he does not want a political position in a future free Tibet. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile is already democratic, as many Tibetans as could, elected a president and other high ranking officials several years ago. The future plan for a new, free, democratic Tibet is outlined here: http://www.tibet.com/future.html become more informed before pushing one view as "fact!"
You're completly right. Tibet was a theocracy ruled by a priesthood that lived in opulence while the masses lived in squalor. The Dhali Lama is a dictator who's goal is to return to power and rule over the people of Tibet. Tibet was subjegated under a priesthood, and thats what The Dhali Lama wants to return to Tibet. He's not a simple man with a bowl and a gong. He was a dictator who ruled over a very oprresive society. The Dhali Lama has also accepted money from the CIA to train guerillas to fight the Chinese. A really enlightened man.
Did you read anything that was posted above you? You're just spouting Chinese propaganda. If you had read, even the post right above yours, you would have seen the link to http://www.tibet.com/future.html, which outlines the plan for a free DEMOCRATIC Tibetan government, in which HH the Dalai Lama does NOT have a political position! And just for the record, this plan was written by the Dalai Lama! All of your information comes from sources that have never been to Tibet, never talked to Tibetans, or even read a true account of the history of Tibet! Nobody is saying that Tibet has always been perfect, but to take how Tibet might have been 600 years ago and say thats how it was 100 years ago, is rediculous. The Dalai Lama wasn't directly taking money from the CIA, he was wary of it because of his pacifism. Should he be held accountable for that? Should we just shrug and say, "eh, fuck it" let China continue to detain, torture, and kill dissenters and those Tibetans in Tibet that talk of a crazy idea... freedom for their nation from an illegal Chinese occupation!? Believing that Tibet was a backwards feudal society that was a hellish place to live is like believing that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and supporting the war because of it. And if Tibet was such a hellish place to live, why do most Tibetans want freedom from China? Why would 99 percent of Tibetans vote for HH the Dalai Lama to be president in a heartbeat? (if he wished to be so when Tibet is free, which he doesn't) -Letter sent to HH the Dalai Lama on June 9, 2005 from "the representatives of 40 organizations" within Tibet. become more informed instead of blindly believing the Chinese propaganda machine!
If I we're spouting Chinese propaganda, I would say that Tibet has been Chinese ever since the Yuan conquest in 1300. Which is fairly true, The only independance the Tibetans has was while China was Occupied in other matters like a revolution in 1911. The Dhali Lama used this as an excuse to seise power, and reimpose the priesthood. Writen by a Dictator who wan't to get the priesthood to return, It says right here. A Theocracy. Peace and happiness was Fine For the Lama, but for the people living in Squalor under an aristocratic priesthood, Not so great. Then He goes on to say Which is true, the Tibetan government tried to introduce reforms to appease the Chinese, The Tibetans lived in a society of land owned by estate holders *often the priesthood* with serfs tilling the fields. The Chinese wanted to institue land reform, and redistribute the weath, which was unaccepatble within the government of Tibet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet All My information comes from Wikipedia, the CIA factbook, and several textbooks about Tibet, most of them being Pro Tibetan independance. All You're information comes from a theocrat who just wants to get his slaves back. You might as well ask The Ayatollah about Iranian politics. There we're no attempts at democratic reform in Tibet until the 50's when China tried to reinstate rule. which was used as a political device to get the international coummunity to pay attention to their cause. Massive poverty, a rigid theocratic society ruled by the priesthood, and torture for breaking the laws, including eye gouging. One of these religious laws was to throw away your promise of celibacy required brutal punishment. http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bit/bit15.htm The Chinese have introduced running water, secular education, and electricity. They've also killed thousands of Tibetan independance movements, and stomped as much free speech as possible. I'm not sticking up for either side here, the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend. The Chinese are brutal communists, and the Priesthood of old tibet we're theocrats who exercised iron fisted rule over a starving population. He did know about it, and didn't condone it to it bacame public and became a PR problem. Of course he should be held accountable. Just because the Chinese occupation has been bad doesn't make the former tibetan government good. How did you come up with that paradigm? I hate to spoil you're disenyland view of a brutal theocratic government, but the priesthood of Tibet was a very fierce oligarchy headed by the priesthood. If you consider yourself a Buddhist, you should be the most concerned to prevent the priesthood from returning to rule Tibet. Of course Tibetans wan't freedom from China. I have lots of Chinese friends, and every Chinese person I've ever talked too wants freedom from China. Once again, the enemy of my enemy is not my friend, Tibet should be free. Free from China and free from the priesthood. I've done lots of reading, perhaps you should read more about Tibetan politics then what you get from Shambhala Sun.
False. I don't "get all of my information about Tibet from one source". Also false is it that this source happens to align itself with the "Chinese propaganda machine". This source is a fierce opponent of today's China. Proof? Where do you get this from?
Yet again, false. Let's examine this claim. * It was indeed a backward country, and today Tibet is still backward. This is a fact. * It was a feudal society, ruled by the religious elite. This is a fact. * Hellish place. Fact. Comparing the situation in Tibet decades ago with the situation in Iraq is silly. Freedom is utopian. China today is an oppressive capitalist nation. I wouldn't want to live under China today, either. Proof that 99 percent of Tibetans would vote for the Dalai Lama "in a heartbeat"?
I guess I'm having difficulty understanding your position. You continue to talk about the priesthood and how Tibet may have been a theocracy in the past. But the future plan layed out by the Dalai Lama and the government in exile is democratic. Back to the Iraq analogy, how does this justify the occupation? One could argue that the Iraqi people might be happier now with their new "freedoms," but does this justify the US in telling them their past system was bad, and this new one is good? absolutely not. You continue to lump the former Tibetan government into one way of "how it was." When, just with any nation or government, "how it was" has evolved over hundreds of years. Yes, Tibet was mainly a theocracy. It was a religious state, but nearly all Tibetans were Buddhist. But this doesn't mean it was brutal, or that the Tibetans that were not in monastaries were starving and unhappy. What are we arguing about? Tibet was an independant nation of independant people with their own independant government. Then China invaded and has illegaly occupied the nation ever since. We are talking about a predominantly peaceful people that have lost their country. Just because "old Tibet" wasn't perfect doesn't justify a brutal invasion and occupation. You have said that you want a free Tibet, as do I. I am not defending anything bad that once went on in Tibet, but I am defending the Tibetan people that have lost their nation.
What makes my source not credible? That it contradicts the article you gave, and your position? Once again, to use your argument: proof otherwise?
