I've read through most of the threads in this forum and there are almost no instances of xtians coming in here and insulting or belittleing us. I wish that mirrored American society. Almost as much as I wish I hadn't posted some of the things I have in the Xtian forum, something I won't be doing any longer. Let's practice some tolerance rather than just discussing it or complaining about the lack thereof.
Totally agree I keep away from Christian discussions, unless they actually want/need information and can we can be civil. No harm in a bit of good PR.
That could be hard to prove, since too many would use that as an excuse. If you sat in the same hard, wooden chair your entire life you wouldn't know that a barcalounger was different. Notice I said different, not better. Belief is like shoes... you have to try on more than one to find what you are comfortable wearing.
I've personally never experienced this Xian bashing of my beliefs... so, I'm all for not ragging on them here, lol!
Where I live the vast majority of people are Christians, and although I've never seen or heard any of them insult or belittle someone else for there beliefs, I do see a lot of ignorance of other peoples beliefs. Most Christians I've met feel there religion is the "right" one so theres no need to study othere belief systems, which is a bad philosophy to have in my opinion. I think its a good idea to have discussions with people of other beliefs about there religion or way of life and why they chose it out of the multitude of belief systems out there. It can open you up to ideas you would have never come across on your own and expand your awareness of the people and cultures around you.
Lol, I guess that's why I have this gut-wrenching fear of "Red States!" Make fun of Jersey all you want, it's just like it looks in The Sopranos (at least in my area, right over the Goethals Bridge from Staten Island!) My high school had immigrants from 71 different nations represented-- I LAUGH when people think that true "diversity" is having a large percentage of Black Americans!!! Forget about having a few Muslim people around, we had diversity in our Muslim students too! I met Kosovar refugees, Palestinians, Black American Muslim converts, Muslim immigrants from the actual continent of Africa... Now, THAT'S diversity, lol!!! Though there is a lot of "white" people, Anglo-Europeans are definately not the majority here, actually, I think "Other" is the majority, lol! And because of this I think is why even the Evangelical Christians I've met in Massage Therapy School were very open-minded to listening about my beliefs. The Jehovah's Witnesses here aren't even a pain, they just sit in front of the steps to the Post Office and talk to each other with a basket of WatchTower literature by their feet, lol!
I would tend to agree with wooden_bead - there are many (at least in my experience, including myself) current Pagans who were formally Christians, specifically Catholics. I've been talking to a lot of people here and a lot of folks in my personal life, and it seems to be a common thing. what do you mean as an excuse? (Just wondering.) You're very right in your analogy, trying to find the faith or spirituality that 'fits' - although we don't live in a society where all we're exposed to is that same hard, wooden chair, but rather we're raised one way, and bombarded by a zillion other faiths, ideas, spiritualities, and cultures. I think it's hard nowadays to practice a religion as conservative as Catholicism, for example, when we live in a society which accepts homosexuality, birth control, etc as part of life, which is very much against what the Church teaches.
the way that religion has stolen from and downplayed my ancestors just ticks me off, but its the entire faith thing that scares me, it makes people fly planes into buildings. and I'm sorry if you dont agree, but to me, if its basicaly the same book, its basicaly the same religion
Isn't that rather an over generalization? In fact I'm not sure that I even get what you're saying anyhow. The New Testament and the Q'uran are very different, both differ greatly from Torah and the Talmud. Granted Christians and Muslims use abberated versions of Torah and Talmud; but what is this "basically the same book" thing that you speak of? Religion did not make people fly planes into buildings. Religion was just an excuse; a red herring. Certain people in certain positions will do all kinds of evil things, religion or no. Also, I'm rather curious now. What of this denegration of ancestors? You could be refering to any one of a number of peoples from Native Americans to Hindus.
*BUMP* I withdraw my earlier promise. I'm really sick of the PMs telling me I'm going to hell. I'm not going on the offensive...yet. But I'm growing tired of rhetoric. If those of you bent on saving my soul don't get off now, you will be kicked off the train. Pleasant day.
There is a lot of ignorance in both communities. The Christian ignorance is just more apparent because they are in a position of power with which to exercise their ignorance. It just astounds me how mainstream modern Christianity has so divorced itself from the principles of Jesus. It's like Gandhi said---"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ". Don't be discouraged by the assholes out there. Raging back at them just adds fuel to their hateful discourse. Keep in mind that there are a few Christians out there who aren't raging lunatics. More than a few actually, but not much attention is paid to them as the yells of the madmen tend to be louder than the conversation of the civilized faction.
I try to live by the simple rule my (ultra-Christian) mother taught me - "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!" Not that I remain completely mute when disagreements of philosophy come up, but I try to remain calm and not say things just to be hurtful or hateful. I practice on my family
I do agree however, I think for alot of us Pagans it gets very frustrating living in a very chrisitan based country. We don't have the acceptance that sky god worshippers have. I get angry about it often...I espesially feel it during the winter season when everyone is wishing me a merry CHRISTmas. Which they feel safe doing so because MOST everyone celebrates CHRISTmas. Im not rude when someone wishes me a merry christmas, but it does ruffle my feathers abit. I usually smile and say 'happy Yule"
Though they all had to say 'happy holidays' now. At least that's what I've heard. I do feel quite lucky living in Britain, for the most part people are agnostic humanists who just don't care. You get a few whackjobs but they get very little attention/power. We say 'merry christmas', but it doesn't really bother anyone. People accept the country is christian in name, and learn to get along. I suppose because we have such a history of tolerance and intolerance we actually can pull it off. There's also no suggestion of 'seperation of church & state' so we don't get pissed at the hypocracy but it doesn't exist. Well if you're going down then I'm coming too. Maybe we'll all end up hanging out in 'the heretic zone', would much prefer that to spending eternity with all those annoyingly devout Christians.
I don't see why there's so much discussion about this these days. You can't expect a Christian to say anything other than Merry Christmas, as that is what they celebrate and believe in. You wouldn't expect a Jew to say Merry Christmas...for that matter you wouldn't expect yourself, a Pagan, to say it. I like your response, though.
Well, it bothers me because they just ASSUME Im christian.....thats what bothers me. I would be much happier to hear Happy Holidays. But lately everywhere I go its been Merry Christmas
If you don't want to be perceived as a Christian, then perhaps you can go about ways to be perceived as a pagan. Wear a pentacle or a goddess pendant on your neck. Or whatever you feel would be appropriate for your attire.
2 Days ago I went into the store with a Tshirt on that says "Proud To Be Pagan" and I was still wished a merry xmas. I also have a the triple goddess (mother,maiden,crone) tattoo on my arm. )0(
I get it all the time. People probably don't have time to assess the religious affiliation of everyone they meet, then find an appropriate response (probably don't even know what the other holidays are called), so go with the default choice. We don't do the 'happy holidays' thing here in Britain, just hasn't taken off as an idea (though 'seasons greetings' sometimes crops up). So everyone says 'merry christmas' because well yeah we're a [supposedly] christian country. It's just meant as a greeting, on a par with 'have a nice day'. So I don't take offence and feel marginalised or anything, those of other religions just have to suck it up and deal and far as I can tell nobody (Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, whatever) objects.
This is possibly the first time in my life that I know more pagans than christians (I live in Santa Cruz ca. lotsa pagans and nature worshipers here) and there's definatley something about it I like. It's a nice change; don't have to hear christmas music everytime I go to the store, almost nobody has lights up around here (which I always thought was kind of a guawdy waste of electricity), you don't have "Buy this!!!" "Get That!!!" in your face everywhere you go and I'll bet I've been wished a "Happy solstice" more times than "Merry christmas" this year. either expression's Ok with me. Myself I'll just say "Happy Thursday", even though I don't really worship Thor (just always thought he was cool).
