Wanting children or not

Did you even truly read and try to understand what I was saying? It's late at night and I'm not writing a manifesto here. I'm writing what I truly feel, which may be irritating or objectionable to you, but I have nothing to lose. I've said how I have such an idealized notion of how humans should be. I look at a person and see such great potential - for THEM, not for any babies they'll pop out. The stay at home mom who raises great children - that's nice, of course - but what about her? I'm obviously not trying to tell anybody what to do, I'm telling you how I honestly feel about these things. I see human life as such a Romantic notion. Each person's life has the potential to be so inspiring - and it could be doing anything - traveling around, being a scholar, or an artist or a corporate mogul, or anything that requires some kind of creative power and aptitude. I don't know if I'll ever see a domestic life as anything but a failure to achieve that potential - that is, if that's the entire scope of that person's life. I know some housewives who do other things in their spare time - they teach or learn or write, and that's admirable and that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who do nothing else but raise kids and cook, clean etc. I don't even know how many such people there are. Again, I don't know if I'll ever see that as anything but waste. I urge you to not give a shit how I feel, because if you do then you'll get offended, and being offended here is a waste of everyone's time. Just understand that this is how I feel, I can't change it, and I'm also not going to lie about it.

Well, when I say career, I mean a chosen pursuit, not a job. Being a secretary is a job, and in my mind the same waste as being a housewife. I'm obviously not saying sitting at a desk all day is better. A career doesn't have to necessarily be a job. Career literally means street - a path in someone's life. If that's being a zen traveler or grafiti artist or organ player, that's a meaningful career.

This is exactly what I find pathetic. Instead of changing the world through another person, why can't she change it through herself? see above for my explanation why. So a person's going through their life, of which they have only one, of which consists 70 years. So instead of aspiring to greatness, she's going to sink into mediocrity and instead channel her energy into someone ELSE? This is what I find so disgusting. Ever read Ayn Rand? She wrote the Fountainhead which details objectivist philosophy. I read that book and thought , "click, although this book is propaganda, not literature and this woman has a few screws loose, this is exactly what I believe about the human's place in society." Even Ayn Rand would probably not agree with what I'm saying. Objectivism indicates that one must live for themselves (this is NOT selfishness because I don't mean you're only concerned about yourself and ignore others needs, but that you LIVE for yourself.). I can expound this if you want, as discussing objectivism is one of my favorite things to do.

Again, career, not job. And the reason many people's careers don't impact the world is because they've bought into the standard status quo of mediocrity. Besides, being someon's hero is not a huge impact. It impacts people's minds for the split second when they answer the question. If that mother, instead of creating a new life to influence it to do great things or be a great person, had done great things and been a great person herself, the effect would not be diluted, and we would not live in the the mediocrity I've been railing against.

I'm not looking down on motherhood. I do want the human race to continue. I'm looking down on the things I detailed above.

 

That was well put sadeyedlady. I agree, I notice that once someone has children, everything seems to be about the children and the parents seem to lose themselves. Of course there probably are many talented people who can manage to achieve greatness while raising children, but it must be difficult. Whenever I think of my future and the accomplishments I wish to carry out, I simply can't include children in my outlook. They don't seem to fit in.

 

Well, I'm not a sahm so I'm not offended. But tell me, what's the difference between an artist and a full-time mother? They both use creativity, patience, discipline, and they both wish to be respected for their work. And, both the artist and the sahm PRODUCE something: The artist produces a piece of artwork for society to enjoy, and the sahm (in general) produces a secure, productive adult for society to enjoy. This is true of ALL careers--they all involve producing something beneficial to society, whether it's yourself (if your chosen career is to be a zen lunatic or something of the sort), another person, or an actual product.

Your "romantic" view of people is rather distorted--not everyone has the same potential. Some have the potential to become master chefs, some have the potential to become writers, and some have the potential to become wonderful mothers. Who are you to say which one is more worthy?

And, assuming everyone does have the same potential, would you not agree that life isn't always about potential, but about HAPPINESS? Take me for example: My father is a physics professor. If I decided to take physics in college, I could probably pass if I got lots of tutoring from my dad and from other people. You could say that I have the potential to become a nuclear physicist. Really, if I put my mind to it, I could have the potential to become anything I wanted to be. But guess what? I would be MISERABLE as a nuclear physicist, because I know that's not what I was meant to do. So, what if a woman worked for a while and couldn't really find anything she was happy with, and then she became a mother and realized that this was where her happiness lies. This is what she was meant to do.

I'm confused. You say that when you say career you mean "chosen persuit". Well, what do you think motherhood is?! It's obviously a chosen path, but this chosen path isn't the "worthy" chosen path in your view. So, since being a "grafiti artist" is a meaningful career, but being a sahm isn't, what exactly makes a career meaningful? I am having a hard time seeing how a grafiti artist or a zen traveler works harder than a sahm, so hard work must have nothing to do with your definition of "meaningful". And an organ player and grafiti artsist have about a big of a chance of "changing the world" than a sahm does. So I guess "changning the world" has nothing to do with "meaningful career. So what is it?

First of all, I've read the Fountainhead, and I personally found Rand's philosophy to be bullshit, but I'll stick to the topic. Has it ever occured to you that some people grow by helping others? Everyone (sahm or not) channels their energy into other people all the time, and we're not talking about ignoring your own needs. Of course sahm should take care of themselves, if they don't take care of themselves how can they help anyone? If a sahm lives through her children (and some working mothers are guilty of this too), never gets out, and has no social life or hobbies, that's a different problem entirely that has nothing to do with whether or not she's a sahm. Working mothers can still have no life outside of work and kids.

And here's what I find pathetic: Assuming you're a feminist, you don't act like a feminist to me. True feminism is not about demanding that all women everywhere save the world and live up to every last ounce of their potential or else...true feminism is about CHOICE. Way back when, when all women had to stay home and working outside the home was unheard of, that was not fair, because women who wanted to work weren't socially allowed to. If society agreed with the way you are talking, all women would have to work whether they wanted to or not. How is that any better?

Again: Not everyone can impact the world in a large scale. Just like it's impossible for everyone to be famous, it is unfair to expect everyone to take their career to extremes so they can "impact the world" when they are perfectly happy with the way their lives are now.

It is impossible to measure the impact mothers have on their childrens lives, because you can't go back and raise the kid a different way and see if they would turn out the same. I think the children raised by sahm mothers would argue with that--personally, if I didn't have the mother I had, I don't know what I would do.

Well, is it better to be a sahm where most of your attention is given to the kids, or is it better to be a mother striving to save the world and avoid mediocrity and who in the process becomes burnt out, tired, and has no energy left for her kids? Some people are perfectly happy being "mediocre". If they are truly happy, why should they change?


Going back to your statements about children up for adoption...I've worked at an orphanage in Tanzania for 3 weeks, and trust me, all kids put up for adoption will have issues. The kids in Tanzania that lived with their parents were very well behaved, and I could see a difference between them and the average american kid. But the kids in the orphanage were all attention starved, and some of them misbehaved because of it. Abandonded children--whether American or otherwise--all have special difficulties that they will have to face. Particularly if they are older and have been abandoned for longer. In third world countries, alot of teens have run away from the system (either that or there is no system for them). This means they often turn to prostitution and drugs.

I'm not trying to discourage you from adopting, I'm just saying you shouldn't assume that children up for adoption in third world countries won't have as many issues as children up for adoption in the US. You should talk to people who have adopted teens from overseas first.

-Kate

 

The thing is, most people want "careers" however, MOST people just end up with jobs. Just taking up space, taking up time, making money for someone else, and making just enough for themselves to live on. MOST people who want "careers" end up just "jobbing." MOST people don't have a choice. When I was 9 I thought anyone could "Be" anything they wanted to. I graduated college and realized that most people just spend their lives trying to pay the bills, stay alive, get drunk on a Saturday night, and don't get much more than that. Despite the WANT of a "career" most people who work outside the home, JUST have a job. Which, for some odd reason, you find a "waste." Gotta pay the bills. There are few jobs which pay you to be creative and clever. It would be a nice world if everyone who wants a job like this could get one. But it isn't.

Given the choice, for me, between a just-make-ends-meet job and raising some kids full time, I think the kids win hands down. That is, if one LIKES kids, which is kind of a prerequisite for good parenting.

And kids are kids, a child from overseas who has been raised in an orphanage and neglected, or raised in a Foster System isn't going to be any better or a "higher quality" child than an American child raised in the same type of system. I know a few people who have adopted from overseas, they see a lot of hoarding, food issues, and a LOT of acting out. No different than "bratty" American kids. I think you are not only really oversimplifying, but really don't know what to expect from children. A child from a foreign adoption is not going to be insanely "Grateful" to be adopted by an American or anyone else. These kids, like Strawberry said, have just as many, and in many cases more, issues than American born kids. The human psyche isn't different among American kids than it is among kids from other countries when it comes to being neglected and abandoned and raised in an Institutional setting. I think your expectations are unrealistic, if you think a NON American child will be any different psychologically. They aren't. Kids are kids.

 

my aunt is in her late 40s and never had kids, dont think she ever wanted to have any. she ended up with a step son but he is practically grown.............................................​

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i didnt picture myself ever being a mom untill i had my first daughter, then i came to love it and have two beeutiful lil ones now​

 

ok, i didn't want to post again on this thread, but i couldn't help it

sad,

i guess my issue with your posts is that 1) they assume that parenting isn't a creative or personally rewarding endeavor. if someone sees parenting (or pretty much anything in life) as boring drudgery, that's because they have chosen to make it that way, not because it inherently is.
and 2) you seem to assume that being a mom, or more specifically a stay at home mom, means never again having a life of your own. it's true, parenting is a BIG part of your life, once you have kids, but it isn't the only thing. healthy people try to balance their lives as much as possible, even after they have children. you can have a career and children, hobbies and children, romantic relationships and children, and on and on...
life doesn't end after kids.

i guess the point that i am trying to make is that if you told me that you wanted to be an architect, i might not be particularly interested in becoming one myself, but i wouldn't blame you for choosing to do something that i personally find boring or monotonous. i would assume that if you found it exciting, and were passionate about it, that's all that matters, since it is your life.

alright, whatever, i'll shut up. (for now ).

 

Very well said!

 

my life is about my child. i brought her into this world without her permission, and until she's grown, she is my ultimate priority, no questions asked. it is in and of itself an extremely rewarding and by necessity very creative postition to hold. my goal is to present to the world a worthy, intelligent and caring human being. should i manage this, i'd be just as proud as anyone who every built a skyscraper, successful career or won a political office. i don't see why this is an issue for anyone to accept. we all have our ultimate goals and roles in this life, and the one in which i'm currently employed is beyond wonderful. but it won't be my only career. i'll have a second career. don't see why people think that being a mother means you will never again have a life of your own.

 

I hate to say it, but I pretty much agree with this. I went out with someone whose mother made her--her only child--her sole purpose for living and had a tyrannical grip on her, which she tried to extend to me, as I was the interloper, the one who was "stealing" her daughter's, attention from her. Naturally children need to be raised properly, but obviously there's a huge difference in accomplishing this in a balanced and mature fashion, as opposed to making the child an obsession.

 

I want to have kids..I love being around them..I have several little cousins..from 2 years old and up, and I think they are adorable and fun.

 

Most people do accomplish it in a mature fasion; your ex's mother sounds like an extreme exception.

 

well said!

 

I didn't want kids. I got pregnant though and decided to get my shit together because I couldnt bring myself to do the alternitive(s) And I don't regret it. I now understand it was the correct choice for me and I love my son. I love him and understand the love of and for children by people who love children and want them. I understand why people want kids. There are so many reasons people want to have families.

 

The whole thing about being a WOMAN is ultimate in creativeness...we create actual life. Nothing is more beautiful. Nothing is more selfless then to extend your life and your days and your energy to another human being. Nomater where it came from. People will always want to shoot parents down. Although parents are some of the most hard working human beings. Without parents all of us would not be here.

 

No, no, and no! I don't want to have children AT ALL. Some say it's my age, but I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to have children, and this idea will probably never change. In fact, I don't even know if I'll get married, and I don't want to. Some people think the idea of "ending up alone" is such a horrible idea, but I would prefer it. I'll be too concentrated on my career, and I couldn't dedicate myself to a husband or family, so why bother? A friend of mine feels the same way. We both absolutely HATE children anyway... I'm just happy we live in an age where women don't have to get married or have children, and they do have other options. If you want to raise kids, that's fine, but it is NOT for me. At all.

 

HaHaHAHA YOU CRACK ME UP!!!!!!

 

Nope, never. I have absolutely no desire to breed. I'd much rather have pets.

 

I asked this question a long time ago on the parenting forum. I still have no idea. I don't really have that whole nesting mommy thing inside of me I don't think. I'm not sure, I often think of what it would be like to have children, and the idea doesn't bother me, it just seems.... abstract. As if it couldn't be reality. I think that I'm more afraid that I would be a bad parent more than anything. I know that I'm not ready now, and I don't know if I will ever be. And I get pressure both ways. I work with quite a few women who have chosen not to have kids. Mostly because they are irresponsible, selfish and immature (yes even at 39 they still find it necessary to party all night). They tell me I should never settle down with a man or have kids, even the ones who are married with children, tell me that I should never do it. Then I am pressured by my boyfriend's family, who want us to get married and have babies now. We have actually had arguements because his mother said that is what we are supposed to be doing right now because she wants grandchildren. LOL I told her to tell one of her other kids to get knocked up.

I think that maybe I'm just one of those people who doesn't get all babied up. I have plenty of friends with babies and quite frankly, it just doesn't do it for me. I have worked at 3 daycares and quit all of them within 2 weeks (ok one only lasted a day). The thought though makes me feel sad that I can't be a "baby person". It seems like so many people get so much joy out of it. Hopefully, I will change my mind. There are other times when I see myself minding a houseful of kids. Maybe this is just natures way of saying that I'm not ready yet. However I am ready to buy a house. For the past 2 years now that is all I could think about. I have read tons of books on it and I've gone to classes. I want a pretty yard to take care of and rooms to decorate. People say I'm on my way to nesting. Maybe I'm just slower than others. I've always been a late bloomer. Perhaps, I'll just buy my house and adopt a dog.

 

i don't want kids but probably for the wrong reasons, having been abused although i know i would NEVER do that to my kids, i'm just not comfortable around them. also i used to be anorexic (not now) but the whole idea of getting bigger repulses me. i'm also now at the point in my life where the thought of a childs constant needs exhauts me, i have 3 dogs, one is a puppy and i find him hard to cope with, what would a child be like??? there is alot of unspoken family pressure on my husband and i to have kids.

 

Worst reason EVER to have kids!!!!

Not everyone wants children. Not everyone needs to have them. It is not like human beings are an endangered species. I think only those who REALLY want children, enjoy being with them and are willing to make the sacrifices should be parents. We would have a lot more happy, less messed up kids if this were the way people thought and acted.

There is no law that anyone who doesn't want to has to breed. If you think you don't want kids, probably you shouldn't have them. You may mature or change your mind, or you may not. No one should have kids who isn't willing to make the absolute best emviroment for them. That includes their time (LOTS OF IT, kids are into QUANTITY time, not quality time) and their money and their heart and soul.

Nuff said. IMO.